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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 March 2025

12 Mar 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Single-sex Spaces (Public Sector)
Chapman, Maggie Green North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

Scottish Trans explains:

“it is not a new idea to insist that trans people should be treated in line with our biological sex at birth by services, public bodies, and when we participate in public life. Historically, this is exactly how trans people were treated, and it meant that we could not go to work safely, use services that met our needs, or use public spaces freely. It meant that we experienced even higher levels of discrimination, harassment and abuse. Our lives were worse, and smaller, and we were hidden away from wider society.

It didn’t work. Trans people knew it didn’t work. Our families and friends knew it didn’t work. Service providers knew it didn’t work—ultimately lots of them did and do want to know how they can help and support us. And courts knew it didn’t work—not only that it didn’t work, but that it breached our human rights or meant that we faced discrimination. So many of the legal rights we have today come directly from court judgements—that say we have a right to live our lives and be recognised in line with our gender identity. That it is not ok to treat us as our biological sex at birth all the time, as to do so greatly reduces our quality of life, our right to privacy, and our right to simply be recognised for who we are.”

This motion, disguised as policy, represents collective punishment of trans women, of trans men, of non-binary people, of intersex people and of women who are too tall or too broad, who have the wrong voices or the wrong clothes, or who have hair in the wrong places or not enough of it—in short, anyone who does not slot into neat little boxes. It is, of course, aimed at trans and non-binary people—and it is as an utterly unapologetic trans ally that I speak this afternoon—but the collateral damage goes much further.

We, in the Scottish Greens, have not changed, and there are others here this afternoon who have not changed either. I know that there are members across the chamber who will stand, as I do, in solidarity with care, love and respect for our trans and non-binary siblings, our hearts aching at the pain that, once again and with such injustice, they are called upon to bear. So far as we can, we share that pain. Everyone deserves safety. Everyone deserves respect. Everyone deserves protection of their human rights—that is what universal means.

I will close with the words of a cis woman who wrote in advance of today’s debate:

“women’s rights are endangered far more by following the US into an anti-trans crusade led by the evangelical right than they ever could be by a trans woman using the bathroom cubicle beside mine.”

I am proud to stand here this afternoon in solidarity with our trans and non-binary siblings.

I move amendment S6M-16755.2, to leave out from first “the Scottish Government” to end and insert:

“all women deserve protection from misogyny, including transmisogyny; condemns the rise in transphobic rhetoric and policy; believes that transgender and nonbinary people contribute immensely to the wellbeing of Scotland’s communities; reiterates its commitment to human rights for all, including freedom from discrimination and upholding the Equality Act 2010; requires all public bodies to comply with the law, and welcomes the role of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission in providing codes of practice and guidance.”

15:24  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16755, in the name of Russell Findlay, on protecting single-sex spaces in the public sector. I invite mem...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con) Con
On the cusp of Christmas 2022, Parliament sat into the early hours of the morning as MSPs debated the Scottish National Party’s Gender Recognition Reform (Sc...
Lorna Slater (Lothian) (Green) Green
Does the member recognise that it was Conservative Prime Minister Theresa May who sought to reform the Gender Recognition Act 2004 because she wanted trans p...
Russell Findlay Con
That was a bold attempt, but this legislation was a completely different thing. The bill was about the removal of women’s rights. It is no wonder that women...
Lorna Slater Green
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Russell Findlay Con
I am sorry, but I am going to make some headway. I will come back to the member on that. This insidious campaign has been waged for more than a decade, and ...
Mercedes Villalba (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Russell Findlay Con
I do not think that I have much time in hand.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
There is not an awful lot, no.
Russell Findlay Con
I will come back to the member if there is time towards the end. Children who are experiencing the normal challenges of growing up are being told by adults ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Oh, come on. That is so pathetic.
Russell Findlay Con
No—I know, and they know, that every single bit of information was right in front of them. Interruption. All the warnings were writ large, and all the warnin...
Mercedes Villalba Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Russell Findlay Con
I will if we have time. Presiding Officer, is there time in hand?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
There is very little time in hand, but I can give you some of the time back.
Mercedes Villalba Lab
Can the member point to any evidence of harm to others arising from granting transgender people access to single-sex spaces that align with their gender? Do ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Speak through the chair, please.
Russell Findlay Con
I have 11 minutes for this entire speech, but I could spend 11 minutes providing details of evidence. Interruption. I find it extraordinary that the member w...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
I will approach today’s debate with a clear statement of fact at the outset. As our amendment states, the Scottish Government stands firmly behind the Equali...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
The Scottish Government has always sought to debate this topic with sensitivity and compassion based on evidence and the rule of law. That is how ministers w...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Does the cabinet secretary recognise that the Equality Act 2010 came from a recognition that vast swathes of minorities in our communities were facing violat...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Alex Cole-Hamilton is right to point to the basis of the legislation, the reasons why it was introduced and why it remains just as important now as it was at...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
The supporting transgender young people in schools guidance for schools provides non-statutory legislative policy and practical guidance for schools on the m...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) SNP
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
The behaviour in Scottish schools research for 2023 identified concerns among school staff about increasing experiences of misogyny in schools. That is why, ...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
On a point of order, Deputy Presiding Officer. A number of members have tried to intervene. I am seeking your clarification that it would be in order in a d...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Mr Kerr, you will know by now that that is not a point of order and that it is entirely at the discretion of the person speaking whether they take an interve...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. The delivery of the equally safe fund supports the work of the equally safe strategy, which underpins Scotland’s approach to p...