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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 March 2025

12 Mar 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Single-sex Spaces (Public Sector)

I will come back to the member if there is time towards the end.

Children who are experiencing the normal challenges of growing up are being told by adults that they were born in the wrong body. The profound and often irreversible harm that that has caused, and continues to cause, is horrific. One day, there will be a reckoning for those responsible.

Then there is the destruction of girls’ privacy in schools. In 2021, the SNP issued trans guidance for schools, which stressed that there was no legal basis for excluding boys from girls’ toilets and that pupils should be free to join physical education classes with the gender of their choosing. It also included advice on increasing the number of gender-neutral toilets. There have been instances of sexual harassment and assault. I find it reprehensible that young female pupils are too scared to go into school toilets because of the presence of young men, even where there is no ill intent. As a parent, I would refuse to accept that. No pupils or their parents should be bullied into submission because schools have been told to accept and promote self-ID.

In 2022, Scottish Government civil servants were sent material that described biological sex as a

“binary system ... set by the medical establishment to reinforce white supremacy and gender oppression”.

I mean, for goodness’ sake—I only got a few highers and none of them were in science, but in what mind-bending parallel universe is it okay for civil servants to peddle basic biological falsehoods?

The same material labelled some women’s rights campaigners as TERFs, which stands for “trans-exclusionary radical feminists”. Initially used as a smear by the gender lobby, the term has since been embraced by Scotland’s proud legion of TERFs. Trust me—you do not want to get on the wrong side of them. Today, I thank them for their heroic work. From the very beginning, the TERFs could see the problems with self-ID. At every level, from the top of the Government to our NHS, councils, policing and schools, women’s rights have been set on fire. Even today, after all this has played out in public, many state agencies just do not get it. Scotland’s TERFs have been bravely determined in their fight for justice, and that fight continues.

Just over two years ago, my party did everything that it could to try to prevent the SNP’s harmful gender self-ID law from being enacted. John Swinney, Anas Sarwar and Alex Cole-Hamilton all voted for it. Anas Sarwar has since claimed that he would not have done so if he had known then what he knows now. He is not here to explain himself, but I would be happy to give way to any of his colleagues if they can reveal exactly what it is that they did not know back then. None of them will, as expected. The reason was—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16755, in the name of Russell Findlay, on protecting single-sex spaces in the public sector. I invite mem...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con) Con
On the cusp of Christmas 2022, Parliament sat into the early hours of the morning as MSPs debated the Scottish National Party’s Gender Recognition Reform (Sc...
Lorna Slater (Lothian) (Green) Green
Does the member recognise that it was Conservative Prime Minister Theresa May who sought to reform the Gender Recognition Act 2004 because she wanted trans p...
Russell Findlay Con
That was a bold attempt, but this legislation was a completely different thing. The bill was about the removal of women’s rights. It is no wonder that women...
Lorna Slater Green
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Russell Findlay Con
I am sorry, but I am going to make some headway. I will come back to the member on that. This insidious campaign has been waged for more than a decade, and ...
Mercedes Villalba (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Russell Findlay Con
I do not think that I have much time in hand.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
There is not an awful lot, no.
Russell Findlay Con
I will come back to the member if there is time towards the end. Children who are experiencing the normal challenges of growing up are being told by adults ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Oh, come on. That is so pathetic.
Russell Findlay Con
No—I know, and they know, that every single bit of information was right in front of them. Interruption. All the warnings were writ large, and all the warnin...
Mercedes Villalba Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Russell Findlay Con
I will if we have time. Presiding Officer, is there time in hand?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
There is very little time in hand, but I can give you some of the time back.
Mercedes Villalba Lab
Can the member point to any evidence of harm to others arising from granting transgender people access to single-sex spaces that align with their gender? Do ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Speak through the chair, please.
Russell Findlay Con
I have 11 minutes for this entire speech, but I could spend 11 minutes providing details of evidence. Interruption. I find it extraordinary that the member w...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
I will approach today’s debate with a clear statement of fact at the outset. As our amendment states, the Scottish Government stands firmly behind the Equali...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
The Scottish Government has always sought to debate this topic with sensitivity and compassion based on evidence and the rule of law. That is how ministers w...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Does the cabinet secretary recognise that the Equality Act 2010 came from a recognition that vast swathes of minorities in our communities were facing violat...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Alex Cole-Hamilton is right to point to the basis of the legislation, the reasons why it was introduced and why it remains just as important now as it was at...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
The supporting transgender young people in schools guidance for schools provides non-statutory legislative policy and practical guidance for schools on the m...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) SNP
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
The behaviour in Scottish schools research for 2023 identified concerns among school staff about increasing experiences of misogyny in schools. That is why, ...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
On a point of order, Deputy Presiding Officer. A number of members have tried to intervene. I am seeking your clarification that it would be in order in a d...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Mr Kerr, you will know by now that that is not a point of order and that it is entirely at the discretion of the person speaking whether they take an interve...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. The delivery of the equally safe fund supports the work of the equally safe strategy, which underpins Scotland’s approach to p...