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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 March 2025

04 Mar 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Ukraine
Swinney, John SNP Perthshire North Watch on SPTV

Just last Monday, all of Scotland’s political leaders took part in a powerful and moving ceremony at Edinburgh castle to mark three years since the start of Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. We stood together with members of the Ukrainian community living here in Scotland to commemorate the time that has passed since the start of that invasion but also to reaffirm our support for the people of Ukraine. Although we disagree on points of policy and politics in this chamber—which is right and proper in a parliamentary democracy—when it comes to upholding the values and principles of modern democracy, the Scottish Parliament stands behind Ukraine, resolute and unwavering. [Applause.]

Regardless of our political views, everyone in this chamber understands that democracy is hard fought for and must never be taken for granted. Democracy must be cherished, defended and enhanced. That is the lesson of the 20th century and it is the lesson that the people of Ukraine live, struggle and fight to teach us every day.

The courage demonstrated by President Zelenskyy and by all Ukrainians since the first day of Russia’s illegal full-scale invasion reaches far beyond the protection and preservation of their own homeland. Ukrainians struggle and fight for all of Europe and for the protection and preservation of all democratic nations. It is a struggle for the rule of law, for human rights and to uphold the international norms that once ensured that Europe knew guaranteed peace. The Ukrainian people are fighting for their homeland and their future, but for our future, too.

Three years ago, Russia expected to flatten Ukrainian resistance within days but, despite a war that has caused years of unnecessary misery in a peaceful, sovereign and democratic nation, the power of the fight for democracy and all its freedoms has given the Ukrainian people their purpose as well as their most potent advantage. Ukraine’s people are fighting to defend her independence, her territorial integrity and her security in the face of appalling, unprovoked violence—violence that has destroyed lives, separated families, wounded hundreds of thousands of citizens and razed cities to the ground—yet President Zelenskyy has not wavered in strength or dignity. His people have not laid down arms and Russia has not succeeded in reaching its war aims, despite sending hundreds of thousands of troops to their deaths, or to be wounded, on the front lines.

Now, as a result of all that unnecessary carnage, millions of Ukrainian children have never known peace, while western democracy has never been under such relentless attack from within. Misinformation, propaganda, malicious interpretations of history, arrogance, ignorance, prejudice and hate are being used to divide us. Only yesterday, after Russia launched a drone attack on a civilian building in Kharkiv, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said:

“We see that the collective West has started to become less collective. A fragmentation of the collective West has begun.”

That is precisely what Russia wants its people and the world to believe and it is precisely what Putin wants us to believe. We must be ever vigilant to the threat of disinformation, which takes the shape of the Kremlin’s talking points.

Russia was not provoked to invade Ukraine, in 2014 or in 2022. No credence should be given to deflection tactics that blame NATO expansion for Russian aggression. Each and every country in NATO is a democracy that has made its own sovereign choice to become a member, and many of the countries on NATO’s eastern flank have recent experience of living under Russian threat.

The strong international solidarity and dedication to achieving peace in Ukraine was evident for all to see at the security summit in London this weekend. The vast majority of European leaders have only one message—their unreserved condemnation of illegal Russian aggression.

Therefore, Ukraine’s allies should all have one aim and one aim only—to support Ukraine’s independence, her territorial integrity and her security. I whole-heartedly welcome the Prime Minister’s “coalition of the willing” initiative to provide Ukraine with security guarantees after a ceasefire agreement, as well as the £1.6 billion missile deal for Ukraine. I also accept the case for peacekeeping forces to avert further conflict, subject to proper scrutiny and a vote in the House of Commons, and I understand the delicate balance of diplomacy that the Prime Minister and the United Kingdom Government must navigate in this matter.

I make clear my commitment and the commitment of my Government to a united front and to doing all that I can to support Ukraine to succeed. However—like the many European leaders who expressed their solidarity with President Zelenskyy this weekend, I am sure—I am very disturbed by how his meeting with the US President and Vice President played out last week. I agree with President Zelenskyy’s statement that Ukraine wants its partners

“to remember who the aggressor is in this war.”

We must see unwavering unity across the political spectrum in full solidarity with Ukraine on that essential point. The events at the Oval office meeting with President Zelenskyy and the announcement that was made this morning of a pause in US military aid to Ukraine can only run the risk of emboldening Russia—the aggressor. As I said this weekend, if that were to remain the posture of the US Government, a second state visit for US President Donald Trump would become unthinkable. I know that there are people in this chamber and across this country who will disagree—people who will say that we should not contemplate this stance or who will say that President Trump should not be invited under any circumstances. I understand and respect those points of view but I cannot share them.

Right now, today, as we stand here, men, women and children in Ukraine are putting their lives and their freedom on the line to defend their country and all our democracies. We say that we support them, and we do, but that means being willing to do things that are hard—things that we would rather not do. So, if a state visit could help to solidify US support for Ukraine—if that is part of what supporting Ukraine means in practice—it is a possibility. For that to be true, however, the US would have to sustain the steadfast support of Ukraine, her independence and her territorial integrity.

As we think through all these issues, the important questions are the hard-headed, clear-eyed consideration of what is best for Ukraine and for European security today. For my Government, that means standing steadfast behind Ukraine and alongside the United Kingdom Government and our European allies, and that is exactly what Scotland will do.

My hope is that US and European leaders can once again find a way to speak with one voice on the matter of this conflict. There are no grey areas when one country chooses to send troops and tanks into the peaceful territory of another. My Government supports the approach of the United Kingdom Government in committing to secure international solidarity in support of Ukraine’s long-term future. We welcome the 100-year partnership that was recently agreed by the United Kingdom and Ukraine, and Scotland will play our part, whether as part of the United Kingdom or as an independent nation in the future, in helping to deliver it.

I also welcome the approach of the Prime Minister and the proposed four-point plan to end the war and defend Ukraine from Russia. As I have already stated, Scotland accepts the case for the deployment of any peacekeeping forces to avert future conflict, subject to scrutiny and a vote by members of Parliament in the House of Commons. My Government remains committed to supporting Ukraine until a just peace is secured—not a peace at any cost, which strips Ukraine of her sovereignty in wartime.

Let me once again make clear that there can be no truly sincere or constructive peace talks about the future of Ukraine without Ukraine being present at the negotiating table and that securing the future of Ukraine is utterly vital to securing the peace that we have enjoyed in Europe for so long. Ukraine’s future and her fate is our future and our fate, so we must aspire to be as courageous as the people of Ukraine and stand by them, always, in their hour of need.

We must maintain unity with our partners across Europe and the western world—unity like that demonstrated in London this weekend and at Edinburgh castle last week—because events in Ukraine are having, and will continue to have, a direct negative impact on Scotland’s economy, security and society. Scotland’s approach internationally will continue to be led and guided by our compassion for Ukraine. I know that members in the chamber will continue to work together on these matters and to put any differences aside in respect of our common efforts to uphold justice.

Now, 25 years into the life of this modern Parliament, Scotland chooses to stand for democracy, for human rights and the rule of law, at home and among our courageous allies such as Ukraine. Those are the underpinnings of democracy, of prosperity, and of every freedom that democracy provides. That is the solidarity among allies that will deliver Ukraine from Russia’s barbaric aggression, while protecting her heritage, her culture and her social and economic future.

We have, across Scotland, been honoured that thousands of Ukrainians have made their home in our country. My message to people from Ukraine who are living here in Scotland, is that you are, and always will be, very welcome here. Providing support and sanctuary for Ukrainian people who have been displaced by Russia’s brutal war continues to be a priority for the Scottish Government. I want Ukrainians everywhere to know that they also have Scotland’s fullest support; I know that many of them will be deeply concerned by what has unfolded over the past few days. It is for those brave Ukrainians, and every person who is protected by democracy, that Scotland will never be silent. Here in Scotland, we will, forever, stand with Ukraine. [Applause.]

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a statement by John Swinney on international solidarity to support Ukraine. The First Minister will take questions at the end of...
The First Minister (John Swinney) SNP
Just last Monday, all of Scotland’s political leaders took part in a powerful and moving ceremony at Edinburgh castle to mark three years since the start of ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The First Minister will now take questions on the issues raised in his statement. I intend to allow around 30 minutes for questions. It would be helpful if m...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con) Con
We are honoured to be joined today, in the public gallery, by the consul of Ukraine in Edinburgh. Applause. For more than a century, the United Kingdom and ...
The First Minister SNP
First, I associate myself with the welcome to the consul general of Ukraine. I am glad that he is here to hear these exchanges and the solidarity that we hav...
Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I join others in welcoming the consul general of Ukraine to the Parliament. I spoke to him just before we came into the chamber, and he emphasised how much i...
The First Minister SNP
In short, yes. I welcome the role that the Prime Minister has taken in recent months, weeks and days—particularly intensively in recent days—to try to establ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I join others in welcoming the consul general of Ukraine, and I recognise the impact of these discussions on Ukraine and on Ukrainians who are living in Scot...
The First Minister SNP
I will make two points in response to that. First, Patrick Harvie used the term “truth”. Truth is so important in the conduct of these issues, because we all...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I, too, welcome the appearance of our friend the Ukrainian consul general. Slava Ukraini. Heroyam slava. President Zelenskyy and the people of Ukraine are h...
The First Minister SNP
First, what I said about the state visit in my statement is what I have been saying all weekend. There is nothing different about what I said to Parliament t...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
It has been an absolute privilege to welcome Ukrainian people to Scotland during this difficult time. However, in this time of increased uncertainty—particul...
The First Minister SNP
Rona Mackay highlights the unease and anxiety that must be felt by Ukrainian citizens who are living in this country. Their lives have been turned upside dow...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
The statement from the First Minister rightly acknowledges the danger of division in our society. We all want a path to peace, but President Trump’s recent d...
The First Minister SNP
A number of companies in Scotland are involved in the manufacture of military equipment. Some of that military equipment is manufactured for our use here, an...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
The US Administration seems determined to appease the Kremlin’s butcher of Bucha and seek a Carthaginian peace that makes the treaty of Versailles look sensi...
The First Minister SNP
I think that the importance of a guarantee of security is absolutely fundamental in this discussion. Without a guarantee of security, the suffering of the pe...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The consul of Ukraine in Scotland, who is in the gallery, told Parliament just a few days ago that Ukraine needs three powers: weapons, economic sanctions an...
The First Minister SNP
I do not think that I could have been clearer about the Scottish Government’s support for the Prime Minister’s efforts. That is expressed openly and genuinel...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
Last week, the consul of Ukraine in Scotland told the Parliament’s Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee that Ukraine requires “not o...
The First Minister SNP
The people of Ukraine have suffered enormously, and it is vital that the peace settlement that is achieved is one that protects the independence, sovereignty...
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con) Con
I associate myself with the First Minister’s remarks and acknowledge the work of the Prime Minister. It is important that he knows that he is acting on behal...
The First Minister SNP
I readily associate myself with Jackson Carlaw’s suggestion. Invitations to Parliament are, of course, a matter for the Presiding Officer and the parliamenta...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the First Minister’s strong support for the principle of Ukrainian territorial integrity, its independence and the principle of self-determination....
The First Minister SNP
Mr Brown speaks with the authority of having been a member of the armed forces who served in active combat in the Falklands war in 1982. As I do on many issu...
Jackie Dunbar (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
We must be steadfast in our support for Ukraine at this uncertain time, and I echo the need for international solidarity to defeat Russian aggression. Can th...
The First Minister SNP
The Scottish Government has provided in excess of £5 million in relation to humanitarian assistance in Ukraine, which has provided essential supplies in rela...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Our hearts go out to the people of Ukraine for what they have endured, and their hopes for peace and security for their nation and their right to sovereignty...
The First Minister SNP
Pauline McNeill knows that I come at my politics from the perspective of believing in the necessity of European co-operation and active participation in Euro...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
We all want to see a just peace, and in order to achieve that it is in Scotland’s interests that we support Ukraine and its people’s right to freedom, democr...