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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 December 2024

18 Dec 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

The member makes a very good point, but the fact of the matter is that there is no guarantee of any particular representation on the committee as the bill stands. The Government will have to address that and provide more clarity, particularly on the absence of trade unions and teaching trade unions on the board of the SQA.

The bill as drafted also means that the independent inspectorate will be accountable to Government ministers rather than Parliament, leading experts to suggest, as we have heard, that the chief inspector will be left with fewer powers now than at present.

With no link between Education Scotland and qualifications Scotland and no mention of Withers’s recommendations, the bill does not deliver the coherence in education that the Government claims that it does, either. Crucially, one of the starkest reasons that reform is needed is what happened in 2020, on the current First Minister’s watch, when the poorest pupils’ grades were downgraded. On that, worryingly, the bill is lacking, too.

We agree with NASUWT that the lack of equality data hindered the SQA’s ability to fully examine the 2020 approach, and we believe that any new body must have a more robust attitude towards data collection. The Scottish Government’s response that existing duties are a catch-all is insufficient.

The Government has not got the principles, substance, structures or balance of power right in the bill, which is why we cannot give it our full support in its current form at this stage. The committee was clear that the bill required significant amendment.

Our ambitions for reform must be greater than this. We on the Labour benches want to deliver on the recommendations for reform of Professor Ken Muir, Professor Louise Hayward and James Withers, and, yes, we want to abolish the SQA, make the inspector independent and align curriculum with assessment. Reform on that scale would fulfil what the Government claims are the bill’s purpose and principles. However, as I have set out, the bill that is before us does not do that.

It is also difficult to determine whether the bill achieves the Government’s long-term vision for education, because we have yet to get the second part of that conversation, which we are told will come next year. That means that we are being asked to decide on something on which we do not yet have full information.

We do know that any vision will fall flat if the Government does not move on the key recommendations for improvement that people have set out. Those include the splitting of the accreditation function, rebalancing power, giving trade unions a place on the board, mandating robust data collection, ensuring parental representation, guaranteeing that the strategic advisory council reflects the interests of protected characteristics, and aligning qualifications Scotland and Education Scotland.

To be clear, on reform, the Government must do better than this. The bill must change significantly if it is to get our support. If the Government changes direction—I look forward to engaging with the cabinet secretary to help that to happen—and listens to the voices of those who have said that it needs to change, we will support it. If it does not, we will be behind the countless people outside this place who are calling for a change of direction.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15876, in the name of Jenny Gilruth, on the Education (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I advise members that t...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I am pleased to present the Education (Scotland) Bill and set out its general principles to Parliament. I start by thanking the Education, Children and Young...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
We will support the bill at stage 1. However, I hope that the cabinet secretary understands that there are deep concerns and that the bill will require funda...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Mr Rennie will know from our meeting yesterday that I am very open to engaging with the Opposition parties on a range of amendments. The fundamental point th...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I agree with Jenny Gilruth about the need for a change of culture. Does that mean that she can assure the Parliament that, when the new bodies are formed, th...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
The member raises an important point, which was addressed when I gave evidence to the committee in October. We are talking about people’s employment rights, ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Given that accreditation will remain within the qualifications body, does the cabinet secretary believe that the proposed structure is sufficient and will be...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
We discussed that at the education committee in October. The member raises an important point about accreditation. In recent times, there have been some chal...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
Does the cabinet secretary agree that a lot of the issues around independence and separation arise because of the attitude of people as much as the legal lines?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am more than happy to speak to the member about that. Perhaps he can give me more detail on it outwith the debate. However, I recognise the challenge in re...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I invite members who wish to speak in the debate to press their request-to-speak buttons. 15:01
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee about our scrutiny of the Education (Scotland) Bill. As the relativel...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the member give way?
Douglas Ross Con
Yes.
Martin Whitfield Lab
I am very grateful to Douglas Ross for taking an intervention. Was he as disappointed as I was by the Scottish Government’s response to the committee’s repor...
Douglas Ross Con
I was warned within an inch of my life to be very careful about the speech that I am delivering as the convener of the committee. Perhaps I may intervene lat...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I, too, thank the clerks to the Education, Children and Young People Committee for the power of work that they have put into the Education (Scotland) Bill to...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open on behalf of Scottish Labour. I thank my committee colleagues and all the organisations, individuals, pupils, parents and teachers and s...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I hope that the member heard, at the committee and in the chamber today, my willingness to engage on amendments. Is it the Scottish Labour Party’s position t...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I will come on to explain the position that my party will take this evening, and I will allude to the committee’s recommendations. Reform is essential. Last...
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
You will recall that some of the evidence that we heard at committee was that, at some point, we have to say no to some of the many interest groups being inc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Always speak through the chair.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
The member makes a very good point, but the fact of the matter is that there is no guarantee of any particular representation on the committee as the bill st...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Ross Greer to open on behalf of the Scottish Greens. 15:26
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
The bill has certainly been a long time coming. I thank everyone who has been involved, not just in the stage 1 process, but in the years of work that brough...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Willie Rennie to open on behalf of the Scottish Liberal Democrats. 15:32
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
There is no doubt that our education system is in crisis, and it has been the top subject of political debate for many years. However, the inspectorate has p...
John Mason Ind
Would the member accept that the work was reviewed externally?
Willie Rennie LD
The process was reviewed externally, but the involvement of the Welsh representative in the details of the review was not substantial. I hope that John Mason...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?