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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 February 2025

20 Feb 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Independent Review of Sentencing and Penal Policy
Macpherson, Ben SNP Edinburgh Northern and Leith Watch on SPTV

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate on this important subject, and I welcome the establishment of the independent review.

I agree with what others have said about the chair and the other members of the review, and I particularly welcome the inclusion of David Mackie, whom I have had the privilege of dealing with on a number of occasions. I pay tribute to the work that he has done on the prevention of crime since retiring as a sheriff.

I hope that the establishment of the review will mean that the people who undertake the work will have access to all the data that is available across the Government and more widely, and that they will be able to commission the procurement of any data that they require. That is an important part of making sure that the review is a success, and I know that prominent academics such as Professor Lesley McAra would emphasise that point.

Of course, the review is happening because the current situation that we find ourselves in collectively is extremely challenging, with the number of people in our prisons exceeding 8,300 last year, and there is a need for action.

As part of that, the Government’s commitment to provide significant further investment in community justice in the budget, which I hope that Parliament will pass on Tuesday, is important. I hope that that will be part of a continuing increase in that budget, because the evidence that we heard at the Criminal Justice Committee in favour of increased investment in the criminal community justice part of the portfolio suggests that it can only help us in the collective challenge of reducing reoffending and reducing instances of crime.

The third sector is also referenced in the Government’s motion. I cannot, on the basis of my constituency experience, emphasise enough how important its role is in the collective challenge. The support that Fresh Start, Circle Scotland, Turning Point and other groups based in my constituency provide to those who are leaving prison and the families of those who are either in prison or leaving prison is important in making sure that we tackle the challenge of reoffending, break the cycle and have throughcare in place. I know that the review will look at that issue.

One question that I wanted to pose—I am sure that it will be under consideration by the Government and the review—concerns housing. Over the years, I have had a great amount of casework involving single men who have left prison coming to my constituency surgeries or writing to me about the challenges that they are experiencing—I note that Edinburgh’s housing crisis is the most acute in Scotland. How do we improve the housing offering for individuals in that situation and make sure that that is part of their support?

The other challenge, which is part of the immediate issue but is also about how we build a better situation in the future, is why so many people end up in prison and engaging in crime. In line with the Christie principles, which we collectively committed to 10 years ago, we need to ask how we mitigate the social and economic circumstances that have been referred to that contribute to a situation in which individuals engage in crime.

We still have an issue in Scotland with a culture of violence. As I have raised in Parliament in recent times, I am particularly concerned about our young people in that regard. Greater opportunities for sport, third sector engagement and youth work will make a difference in reducing the prison population in the future.

We could say a lot more on the topic, and I hope that, in future debates, we will have more time to talk about challenging and serious issues of the rule of law in our society, as well as prevention and rehabilitation.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16532, in the name of Angela Constance, on an independent review of sentencing and penal policy. 15:12
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
Since October 2023, I have updated Parliament on a number of occasions about the rising prison population, the challenges that that brings and what the Gover...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am sorry to pre-empt what may come next, but there already is a presumption against short sentences in Scotland. The cabinet secretary is dancing on the he...
Angela Constance SNP
There is indeed a presumption against short-term sentencing in Scotland. This Government took that very decisive action. I know that that has had success, in...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives have been demanding a review of sentencing and penal policy for years. I am pleased to hear that progress has finally been made an...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Does the member recognise that England and Wales are going through exactly the same situation and have encountered exactly the same problem as we have, and a...
Liam Kerr Con
My starting point is always to consider bespoke Scottish solutions to Scottish challenges. It is very important that, where we have a fully devolved matter a...
Angela Constance SNP
I appreciate very much that Mr Kerr wishes to campaign for changes in the victim notification scheme. I will certainly be with him on at least part of that j...
Liam Kerr Con
That is a fair challenge. What we would have done is build capacity such that the new HMP Barlinnie would not be 10 times over budget—it costs nearly £1 bill...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind members who wish to speak in the debate to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak buttons. I call Pauline McNeill to speak to and move ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Our prisons are bursting at the seams and we are being forced to release prisoners early, causing deep public concern. We have some of the highest levels of ...
Liam Kerr Con
Does it concern Pauline McNeill that there is no specific budget line in next year’s budget for throughcare?
Pauline McNeill Lab
It dumbfounds me at times. I have been taking part in debates on this issue for two decades now—indeed I have—and we know that the answers lie in throughcare...
Angela Constance SNP
I wonder whether Ms McNeill welcomes the fact that the new throughcare contract has been agreed and will be in force for the next financial year, with increa...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I absolutely do welcome it, but the two points are not mutually exclusive. I would like it to be visible, but of course I welcome the commitment. What I have...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I welcome the information that the cabinet secretary has shared with us about the commission that will be chaired by Martyn Evans. I look forward to receivin...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I, too, welcome the debate and the independent sentencing review. I know that it is dangerous to prejudge such things, but I confidently expect such a review...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I advise members that back-bench speeches should be of the agreed slot of up to four minutes and that we have no time in hand. An...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
Today’s debate examines the difficult issue of prison populations, the justice system and ensuring that the Scottish public are kept safe from harm. If we lo...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I have four minutes, and we have been asked to co-operate. I am sorry, Mr Kerr. I am fully aware that the funding increases are being made at the same time ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
It was not long ago that we debated the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill. The Scottish Conservatives argued that the bill would do very little t...
Angela Constance SNP
Will the member give way?
Jamie Greene Con
I do not have time. I have great respect for many of the individuals who have been named on the new review panel, but I fear—I hope that it is just that—tha...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Per capita, Scotland has one of the highest prison populations in western Europe. We are simply locking up too many people, and that cannot continue. I welco...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
Since this parliamentary session began, the challenges that the justice system faces have featured prominently in chamber business. Justice touches absolutel...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member give way?
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I will not, if Liam Kerr does not mind, as I am short of time. In response, Scotland has undertaken a range of proactive steps, including a broadening out o...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate on this important subject, and I welcome the establishment of the independent review. I agree with ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. Maggie Chapman will close on behalf of the Scottish Greens. 16:10