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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 February 2025

20 Feb 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Independent Review of Sentencing and Penal Policy
Mackay, Rona SNP Strathkelvin and Bearsden Watch on SPTV

Per capita, Scotland has one of the highest prison populations in western Europe. We are simply locking up too many people, and that cannot continue. I welcome the Scottish Government’s action to establish a review of sentencing and penal policy to consider the most effective ways to address offending behaviour and lower the number of victims. I am extremely pleased that, as we have heard, it will be chaired by Martyn Evans, the former chair of the Scottish Police Authority, who will be supported by five expert commissioners. The panel will examine how imprisonment and community-based interventions are currently used in Scotland. It is clear that we need to look at alternatives to custody. The Scottish National Party Government’s commitment to strengthening community justice services by investing £159 million in 2025-26 reaffirms that.

Scotland is not alone in facing the challenge of prison overcrowding. The previous and current UK Governments have taken action to respond to the rising prison population in similar ways. Interestingly, the recently published Gauke review, which Liam McArthur mentioned and which was conducted by a former Tory minister, highlighted an increased prison population in England and Wales despite a reducing crime rate. Like Scotland, the UK has embarked on the early release of prisoners when it is safe and appropriate to do so to alleviate overcrowding.

Protecting victims and the public from harm is the absolute priority. Prison will always be necessary; for some offenders, it is essential. However, I question whether prison is the best place for many who are sent there. As convener of the cross-party group on women, families and justice, I am aware of how damaging incarceration is to families and children, and it often does nothing to rehabilitate the offender. We know that short prison sentences are often not the best way to reduce reoffending. Community-based interventions are more effective in doing that and in assisting with rehabilitation. Ultimately, that leads to fewer victims and safer communities.

There are far too many women in custody and on remand. In January this year, 330 women were incarcerated, and about 30 per cent of them were on remand. I agree with Jamie Greene’s and Pauline McNeill’s comments about remand, although I am not sure how it would be possible to have no one on remand. We have to tackle that issue.

It is estimated that as many as 90 per cent of women in custody in Scotland have addiction problems with alcohol or drugs. It is further estimated that 80 per cent of women in prison have brain damage due to head injuries caused by domestic violence, and that a similar number of women suffer mental illness to some degree. Prison is no place for women whose addiction and chaotic life experiences have led them down the wrong path. They need holistic help, because no one chooses that lifestyle.

Scotland’s amazing third sector organisations do an incredible job of helping people in a holistic and trauma-informed way when they leave prison. For many people, particularly women, they are a lifeline and are essential to getting them back on track, but, sadly, the damage to families and children has often already been done. The new women’s custody units in Glasgow and Dundee are a huge step in the right direction. They are designed to help women to move slowly back into a normal routine.

I am delighted that the Scottish Government is working with our justice partners to look at how we can offer alternatives to custody. We need to steer a better path and have confidence in alternative pathways. Prison should be the exception, not the rule.

16:01  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16532, in the name of Angela Constance, on an independent review of sentencing and penal policy. 15:12
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
Since October 2023, I have updated Parliament on a number of occasions about the rising prison population, the challenges that that brings and what the Gover...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am sorry to pre-empt what may come next, but there already is a presumption against short sentences in Scotland. The cabinet secretary is dancing on the he...
Angela Constance SNP
There is indeed a presumption against short-term sentencing in Scotland. This Government took that very decisive action. I know that that has had success, in...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives have been demanding a review of sentencing and penal policy for years. I am pleased to hear that progress has finally been made an...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Does the member recognise that England and Wales are going through exactly the same situation and have encountered exactly the same problem as we have, and a...
Liam Kerr Con
My starting point is always to consider bespoke Scottish solutions to Scottish challenges. It is very important that, where we have a fully devolved matter a...
Angela Constance SNP
I appreciate very much that Mr Kerr wishes to campaign for changes in the victim notification scheme. I will certainly be with him on at least part of that j...
Liam Kerr Con
That is a fair challenge. What we would have done is build capacity such that the new HMP Barlinnie would not be 10 times over budget—it costs nearly £1 bill...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind members who wish to speak in the debate to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak buttons. I call Pauline McNeill to speak to and move ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Our prisons are bursting at the seams and we are being forced to release prisoners early, causing deep public concern. We have some of the highest levels of ...
Liam Kerr Con
Does it concern Pauline McNeill that there is no specific budget line in next year’s budget for throughcare?
Pauline McNeill Lab
It dumbfounds me at times. I have been taking part in debates on this issue for two decades now—indeed I have—and we know that the answers lie in throughcare...
Angela Constance SNP
I wonder whether Ms McNeill welcomes the fact that the new throughcare contract has been agreed and will be in force for the next financial year, with increa...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I absolutely do welcome it, but the two points are not mutually exclusive. I would like it to be visible, but of course I welcome the commitment. What I have...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I welcome the information that the cabinet secretary has shared with us about the commission that will be chaired by Martyn Evans. I look forward to receivin...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I, too, welcome the debate and the independent sentencing review. I know that it is dangerous to prejudge such things, but I confidently expect such a review...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I advise members that back-bench speeches should be of the agreed slot of up to four minutes and that we have no time in hand. An...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
Today’s debate examines the difficult issue of prison populations, the justice system and ensuring that the Scottish public are kept safe from harm. If we lo...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I have four minutes, and we have been asked to co-operate. I am sorry, Mr Kerr. I am fully aware that the funding increases are being made at the same time ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
It was not long ago that we debated the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill. The Scottish Conservatives argued that the bill would do very little t...
Angela Constance SNP
Will the member give way?
Jamie Greene Con
I do not have time. I have great respect for many of the individuals who have been named on the new review panel, but I fear—I hope that it is just that—tha...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Per capita, Scotland has one of the highest prison populations in western Europe. We are simply locking up too many people, and that cannot continue. I welco...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
Since this parliamentary session began, the challenges that the justice system faces have featured prominently in chamber business. Justice touches absolutel...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member give way?
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I will not, if Liam Kerr does not mind, as I am short of time. In response, Scotland has undertaken a range of proactive steps, including a broadening out o...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate on this important subject, and I welcome the establishment of the independent review. I agree with ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. Maggie Chapman will close on behalf of the Scottish Greens. 16:10