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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 February 2025

20 Feb 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Independent Review of Sentencing and Penal Policy
MacGregor, Fulton SNP Coatbridge and Chryston Watch on SPTV

Today’s debate examines the difficult issue of prison populations, the justice system and ensuring that the Scottish public are kept safe from harm. If we look at the current environment, we see that rising prison populations are causing issues for Governments across the whole UK. Here in Scotland, the prison population often exceeded 8,300 last year, and projections indicate that the numbers will continue to rise, potentially to record levels. It has been made clear to me and my colleagues at meetings of the Criminal Justice Committee that those numbers are unsustainable without intervention.

Further instability will put the effective functioning of our Prison Service at risk, including the ability to rehabilitate offenders, so it is critical that we explore a range of actions to ensure that the system operates safely and effectively for staff and prisoners alike. The announcement of an independent review of sentencing and penal policy is a step towards ensuring that the risk does not become a reality.

It might be inferred that larger prison populations indicate that Scotland is becoming more dangerous but, as we have heard, recorded crime has continued to trend downward over the past two decades. There are numerous reasons for the increasing prison population, including increased sentencing lengths, more convictions for historical offences and increasingly complex situations regarding separating groups of prisoners from one another—all issues that we hear about regularly in the Criminal Justice Committee. In exploring the topic, we have previously heard evidence that those who are released from short custodial sentences are reconvicted at a rate that is almost twice that of those who are sentenced to a community payback order. Such statistics remind us that, although appropriate in many cases, short prison sentences are often not the best way to reduce reoffending.

So far, the Scottish Government has taken a range of actions to address rising prison populations. They include extending the presumption against short-term sentences, introducing electronically monitored bail and enabling that time served to be taken into account at sentencing, and strengthening alternatives to remand. Those steps are mitigatory, so it is necessary for further in-depth research to take place on imprisonment and community-based sentences. Therefore, as I have said, I whole-heartedly welcome an externally-led review of sentencing and penal policy.

As with so many issues, addressing the topic will cost money. The Scottish Government has increased the justice allocation in the budget for the second year running. If my colleagues across parties support the budget, they will be supporting an investment of almost £4.2 billion in justice, which is an increase of nearly £400 million. That is my call to the other parties in considering supporting the budget.

The cabinet secretary will not be surprised to hear—in fact, she mentioned it herself—that if we want to change radically the balance between community rehabilitation and custody, we need to fund that. I welcome the continued investment in criminal justice social work services. We cannot change the balance overnight, but we need to change it gradually over a set period. There should be increased investment year on year until that balance is achieved.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16532, in the name of Angela Constance, on an independent review of sentencing and penal policy. 15:12
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
Since October 2023, I have updated Parliament on a number of occasions about the rising prison population, the challenges that that brings and what the Gover...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am sorry to pre-empt what may come next, but there already is a presumption against short sentences in Scotland. The cabinet secretary is dancing on the he...
Angela Constance SNP
There is indeed a presumption against short-term sentencing in Scotland. This Government took that very decisive action. I know that that has had success, in...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives have been demanding a review of sentencing and penal policy for years. I am pleased to hear that progress has finally been made an...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Does the member recognise that England and Wales are going through exactly the same situation and have encountered exactly the same problem as we have, and a...
Liam Kerr Con
My starting point is always to consider bespoke Scottish solutions to Scottish challenges. It is very important that, where we have a fully devolved matter a...
Angela Constance SNP
I appreciate very much that Mr Kerr wishes to campaign for changes in the victim notification scheme. I will certainly be with him on at least part of that j...
Liam Kerr Con
That is a fair challenge. What we would have done is build capacity such that the new HMP Barlinnie would not be 10 times over budget—it costs nearly £1 bill...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind members who wish to speak in the debate to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak buttons. I call Pauline McNeill to speak to and move ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Our prisons are bursting at the seams and we are being forced to release prisoners early, causing deep public concern. We have some of the highest levels of ...
Liam Kerr Con
Does it concern Pauline McNeill that there is no specific budget line in next year’s budget for throughcare?
Pauline McNeill Lab
It dumbfounds me at times. I have been taking part in debates on this issue for two decades now—indeed I have—and we know that the answers lie in throughcare...
Angela Constance SNP
I wonder whether Ms McNeill welcomes the fact that the new throughcare contract has been agreed and will be in force for the next financial year, with increa...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I absolutely do welcome it, but the two points are not mutually exclusive. I would like it to be visible, but of course I welcome the commitment. What I have...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I welcome the information that the cabinet secretary has shared with us about the commission that will be chaired by Martyn Evans. I look forward to receivin...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I, too, welcome the debate and the independent sentencing review. I know that it is dangerous to prejudge such things, but I confidently expect such a review...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I advise members that back-bench speeches should be of the agreed slot of up to four minutes and that we have no time in hand. An...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
Today’s debate examines the difficult issue of prison populations, the justice system and ensuring that the Scottish public are kept safe from harm. If we lo...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I have four minutes, and we have been asked to co-operate. I am sorry, Mr Kerr. I am fully aware that the funding increases are being made at the same time ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
It was not long ago that we debated the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill. The Scottish Conservatives argued that the bill would do very little t...
Angela Constance SNP
Will the member give way?
Jamie Greene Con
I do not have time. I have great respect for many of the individuals who have been named on the new review panel, but I fear—I hope that it is just that—tha...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Per capita, Scotland has one of the highest prison populations in western Europe. We are simply locking up too many people, and that cannot continue. I welco...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
Since this parliamentary session began, the challenges that the justice system faces have featured prominently in chamber business. Justice touches absolutel...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member give way?
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I will not, if Liam Kerr does not mind, as I am short of time. In response, Scotland has undertaken a range of proactive steps, including a broadening out o...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate on this important subject, and I welcome the establishment of the independent review. I agree with ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. Maggie Chapman will close on behalf of the Scottish Greens. 16:10