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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 February 2025

20 Feb 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Independent Review of Sentencing and Penal Policy
Kerr, Liam Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

That is a fair challenge. What we would have done is build capacity such that the new HMP Barlinnie would not be 10 times over budget—it costs nearly £1 billion and is going to be delayed again. We would have ensured that that would not happen.

I agree with the cabinet secretary on many things. There has to be a holistic strategy and a holistic policy that look at the whole environment to ensure that the right people go to prison, that public safety is protected and that those who should not be in prison are not in prison. If the new group that the cabinet secretary has put together is looking at that, I am absolutely with her on that, and I look forward to contributing to it.

To finish my point, in summer, 477 prisoners were released early, but one in eight re-offended within weeks. That is why we need—and should have had previously—action, resources and evidence-based policy making, not warm words. The reason why I want to finish on this point is that, six years ago, I brought a motion to the Parliament. It was a simple one-sentence demand that urgent action, including the abolition of automatic early release, be taken to restore public trust in the justice system. The then justice secretary, the never knowingly effective and now rarely seen Humza Yousaf, amended it to have a go at the United Kingdom Government. However, in an unusual and unexpected dalliance with sound policy making, his amendment said that

“future reforms to sentencing policy should be informed by evidence of what works to reduce reoffending and take appropriate account of Scotland’s current internationally high rate of imprisonment.”

Lamentably, it seems to have taken six years for the Government to get to that point, while instead making panic-stricken, unevidenced, knee-jerk responses such as early release of criminals.

I suspect that the cabinet secretary will agree that the time for warm words is over. The time for proper, evidence-based policy making with proper resources and honesty in sentencing is now.

I move amendment S6M-16532.1, to leave out from “Scotland” to end and insert:

“as a result of, non-exhaustively, significant and long-standing pre-COVID-19 pandemic court backlogs, a high remand population and a failure to timeously build additional prison capacity, Scotland’s prison system is now struggling to house the number of prisoners incarcerated and sentenced as a result of independent decisions made by judges; further notes with disappointment that these capacity issues still persist, despite numerous Scottish Government policies, which were aimed at reducing the prison population, such as changes to automatic early release, which allows many offenders to leave prison after serving 40% of their sentence, a general presumption against short sentences, sentencing guidelines that treat under 25-year-olds differently and an increase in diversion from prosecution; raises concerns that, despite repeated warnings about the need for new prisons, HMP Highland and HMP Glasgow are both delayed and over budget, with the former rising from £52 million to £209 million, and the latter increasing from £100 million to £998 million; understands that reoffending rates were up 2.6% for the 2020-21 cohort; recognises that one-in-eight of those released as a result of emergency early release reoffended, and believes that the role of the independence of the judiciary should not be undermined by government, and that any review of penal and sentencing policy should always prioritise victims over offenders.”

References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16532, in the name of Angela Constance, on an independent review of sentencing and penal policy. 15:12
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
Since October 2023, I have updated Parliament on a number of occasions about the rising prison population, the challenges that that brings and what the Gover...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am sorry to pre-empt what may come next, but there already is a presumption against short sentences in Scotland. The cabinet secretary is dancing on the he...
Angela Constance SNP
There is indeed a presumption against short-term sentencing in Scotland. This Government took that very decisive action. I know that that has had success, in...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives have been demanding a review of sentencing and penal policy for years. I am pleased to hear that progress has finally been made an...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Does the member recognise that England and Wales are going through exactly the same situation and have encountered exactly the same problem as we have, and a...
Liam Kerr Con
My starting point is always to consider bespoke Scottish solutions to Scottish challenges. It is very important that, where we have a fully devolved matter a...
Angela Constance SNP
I appreciate very much that Mr Kerr wishes to campaign for changes in the victim notification scheme. I will certainly be with him on at least part of that j...
Liam Kerr Con
That is a fair challenge. What we would have done is build capacity such that the new HMP Barlinnie would not be 10 times over budget—it costs nearly £1 bill...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind members who wish to speak in the debate to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak buttons. I call Pauline McNeill to speak to and move ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Our prisons are bursting at the seams and we are being forced to release prisoners early, causing deep public concern. We have some of the highest levels of ...
Liam Kerr Con
Does it concern Pauline McNeill that there is no specific budget line in next year’s budget for throughcare?
Pauline McNeill Lab
It dumbfounds me at times. I have been taking part in debates on this issue for two decades now—indeed I have—and we know that the answers lie in throughcare...
Angela Constance SNP
I wonder whether Ms McNeill welcomes the fact that the new throughcare contract has been agreed and will be in force for the next financial year, with increa...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I absolutely do welcome it, but the two points are not mutually exclusive. I would like it to be visible, but of course I welcome the commitment. What I have...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I welcome the information that the cabinet secretary has shared with us about the commission that will be chaired by Martyn Evans. I look forward to receivin...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I, too, welcome the debate and the independent sentencing review. I know that it is dangerous to prejudge such things, but I confidently expect such a review...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I advise members that back-bench speeches should be of the agreed slot of up to four minutes and that we have no time in hand. An...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
Today’s debate examines the difficult issue of prison populations, the justice system and ensuring that the Scottish public are kept safe from harm. If we lo...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I have four minutes, and we have been asked to co-operate. I am sorry, Mr Kerr. I am fully aware that the funding increases are being made at the same time ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
It was not long ago that we debated the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill. The Scottish Conservatives argued that the bill would do very little t...
Angela Constance SNP
Will the member give way?
Jamie Greene Con
I do not have time. I have great respect for many of the individuals who have been named on the new review panel, but I fear—I hope that it is just that—tha...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Per capita, Scotland has one of the highest prison populations in western Europe. We are simply locking up too many people, and that cannot continue. I welco...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
Since this parliamentary session began, the challenges that the justice system faces have featured prominently in chamber business. Justice touches absolutel...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member give way?
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I will not, if Liam Kerr does not mind, as I am short of time. In response, Scotland has undertaken a range of proactive steps, including a broadening out o...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate on this important subject, and I welcome the establishment of the independent review. I agree with ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. Maggie Chapman will close on behalf of the Scottish Greens. 16:10