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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 February 2025

20 Feb 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Independent Review of Sentencing and Penal Policy
Kerr, Liam Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

My starting point is always to consider bespoke Scottish solutions to Scottish challenges. It is very important that, where we have a fully devolved matter and different systems, we do not blindly mirror solutions in other legislatures. That is why I lodged the amendment that I did: the time for the warm words that we see in the Government’s motion is long past.

If we are going to have a sentencing review, that has to start with levelling with the people of Scotland. It is quite difficult to be sent to prison these days. In 2022-23, only 13 per cent of convictions for a crime resulted in prison, which is hardly surprising when we consider the Government’s introduction in 2022 of an instruction that criminals under the age of 25 would not get prison unless

“no other sentence is appropriate”

and that any prison sentence for them would be shorter than for an older person committing that offence. The result of that was a 31 per cent reduction in the number of under-25s being given custodial sentences, including a teenager who left a fire officer with life-changing injuries but got a community payback order. In that case, if it had not been for the sentencing guidelines,

“the court would have imposed a significant custodial sentence.”

In 2019, the Government introduced a statutory presumption that a court must not pass a sentence of imprisonment for a term of 12 months or less. If a criminal got a sentence of four years or less, that used to mean automatic release at the halfway point, without restriction, supervision or consideration of the crime or the victim, regardless of whether the criminal was rehabilitated. I used the past tense there because, just this week, that timeline changed to less than half the sentence.

I thought it instructive when Lynn Burns, who is the victims expert on the Scottish Sentencing Council and whose son, Sam, was murdered in 2013, said on Tuesday that

“40 per cent of a sentence”

is insufficient time

“to rehabilitate.”

What is even more concerning in what has hitherto been an unevidenced knee-jerk policy is that, as the cabinet secretary admitted on Tuesday, the Government does not even know how many of those who are released are violent offenders. The cabinet secretary’s Tuesday interview was instructive, because she said that

“the raison d’être of the legislation is that we need to achieve a sustained reduction in the prison population.”

I would have thought that the safety of the people of Scotland should be the overriding objective. It is no wonder that a furious Linda McDonald, survivor of a brutal attack by Dundee murderer Robbie McIntosh, says in The Courier:

“I worry about public safety and believe there will be more victims.”

Indeed, Kate Wallace, from Victim Support Scotland, is surely right when she says that

“resources are taking priority over victim and public safety.”

It certainly sounds like it, when only 2 per cent of victims of prisoners released early by the SNP last summer were informed, and nothing substantive has been changed in the victim notification scheme since then. That is the real issue.

The motion has warm words, but we have heard them all before and they have never before been backed by plans, resources or holistic thinking. That is why the reconviction rate rose in 2020-21—with the CPO reconviction rate rising significantly.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16532, in the name of Angela Constance, on an independent review of sentencing and penal policy. 15:12
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
Since October 2023, I have updated Parliament on a number of occasions about the rising prison population, the challenges that that brings and what the Gover...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am sorry to pre-empt what may come next, but there already is a presumption against short sentences in Scotland. The cabinet secretary is dancing on the he...
Angela Constance SNP
There is indeed a presumption against short-term sentencing in Scotland. This Government took that very decisive action. I know that that has had success, in...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives have been demanding a review of sentencing and penal policy for years. I am pleased to hear that progress has finally been made an...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Does the member recognise that England and Wales are going through exactly the same situation and have encountered exactly the same problem as we have, and a...
Liam Kerr Con
My starting point is always to consider bespoke Scottish solutions to Scottish challenges. It is very important that, where we have a fully devolved matter a...
Angela Constance SNP
I appreciate very much that Mr Kerr wishes to campaign for changes in the victim notification scheme. I will certainly be with him on at least part of that j...
Liam Kerr Con
That is a fair challenge. What we would have done is build capacity such that the new HMP Barlinnie would not be 10 times over budget—it costs nearly £1 bill...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind members who wish to speak in the debate to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak buttons. I call Pauline McNeill to speak to and move ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Our prisons are bursting at the seams and we are being forced to release prisoners early, causing deep public concern. We have some of the highest levels of ...
Liam Kerr Con
Does it concern Pauline McNeill that there is no specific budget line in next year’s budget for throughcare?
Pauline McNeill Lab
It dumbfounds me at times. I have been taking part in debates on this issue for two decades now—indeed I have—and we know that the answers lie in throughcare...
Angela Constance SNP
I wonder whether Ms McNeill welcomes the fact that the new throughcare contract has been agreed and will be in force for the next financial year, with increa...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I absolutely do welcome it, but the two points are not mutually exclusive. I would like it to be visible, but of course I welcome the commitment. What I have...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I welcome the information that the cabinet secretary has shared with us about the commission that will be chaired by Martyn Evans. I look forward to receivin...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I, too, welcome the debate and the independent sentencing review. I know that it is dangerous to prejudge such things, but I confidently expect such a review...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I advise members that back-bench speeches should be of the agreed slot of up to four minutes and that we have no time in hand. An...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
Today’s debate examines the difficult issue of prison populations, the justice system and ensuring that the Scottish public are kept safe from harm. If we lo...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I have four minutes, and we have been asked to co-operate. I am sorry, Mr Kerr. I am fully aware that the funding increases are being made at the same time ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
It was not long ago that we debated the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill. The Scottish Conservatives argued that the bill would do very little t...
Angela Constance SNP
Will the member give way?
Jamie Greene Con
I do not have time. I have great respect for many of the individuals who have been named on the new review panel, but I fear—I hope that it is just that—tha...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Per capita, Scotland has one of the highest prison populations in western Europe. We are simply locking up too many people, and that cannot continue. I welco...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
Since this parliamentary session began, the challenges that the justice system faces have featured prominently in chamber business. Justice touches absolutel...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member give way?
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I will not, if Liam Kerr does not mind, as I am short of time. In response, Scotland has undertaken a range of proactive steps, including a broadening out o...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate on this important subject, and I welcome the establishment of the independent review. I agree with ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. Maggie Chapman will close on behalf of the Scottish Greens. 16:10