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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 February 2025

20 Feb 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Independent Review of Sentencing and Penal Policy

Since October 2023, I have updated Parliament on a number of occasions about the rising prison population, the challenges that that brings and what the Government is doing about it. I have been clear on the need for on-going action to continue to reduce crime and ensure that we have a sustainable prison population. It is vital that our prisons can operate safely and effectively, with public safety and the rehabilitation of prisoners at the core.

Despite recorded crime being down 39 per cent since 2006-07, the prison population has increased by 60 per cent since 1990. Between 2011-12 and 2017-18, the population reduced by 9 per cent, driven by a reduction in the number of young people sent to prison, before it rose again in 2019-20. Between March and June 2020, we saw a temporary drop as a result of the pandemic, but the prison population has continued to rise since then.

The harms caused by such a high prison population should not be underestimated. His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons for Scotland regularly describes the “nine evils of overcrowding”. I will not rehearse them all, but I will highlight a few. Those who work in prisons have

“less time to devote to screening prisoners for the risks of self-harm or suicide”;

resources in prison are stretched so that prisoners

“have less access to programmes, education, training, work”;

prisoners spend more time in their cells; and family contact and visits are restricted.

We all want people who leave prison to successfully reintegrate into their communities, to contribute to society and to be less likely to reoffend. The harms associated with having a high prison population reduce the impact of prison in preventing reoffending.

Let me be clear: the Scottish Government is not changing its position on the use of prisons. Prison will always be necessary for those who pose a risk of harm or threaten the delivery of justice. Our independent courts must continue to have the ability to remove an individual’s liberty when appropriate. Protecting victims and the public from harm is, as always, my absolute priority.

We need to reconsider the kind of justice system that we want to have. I have said repeatedly that there needs to be a shift in the balance from custody to justice in the community. Debate around community-based sentences is often hostile and misinformed. We need to ask ourselves difficult questions about how to further tackle public health problems that lead to higher rates of offending, such as addiction, poor mental health and poverty, with more effective community-based action. Do we truly believe, as a country, that the only solution is to build more and more prisons, with significant economic and social cost?

We need to face up to the reality of how counterproductive short prison sentences are, given their profound and negative effects.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16532, in the name of Angela Constance, on an independent review of sentencing and penal policy. 15:12
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
Since October 2023, I have updated Parliament on a number of occasions about the rising prison population, the challenges that that brings and what the Gover...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am sorry to pre-empt what may come next, but there already is a presumption against short sentences in Scotland. The cabinet secretary is dancing on the he...
Angela Constance SNP
There is indeed a presumption against short-term sentencing in Scotland. This Government took that very decisive action. I know that that has had success, in...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives have been demanding a review of sentencing and penal policy for years. I am pleased to hear that progress has finally been made an...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Does the member recognise that England and Wales are going through exactly the same situation and have encountered exactly the same problem as we have, and a...
Liam Kerr Con
My starting point is always to consider bespoke Scottish solutions to Scottish challenges. It is very important that, where we have a fully devolved matter a...
Angela Constance SNP
I appreciate very much that Mr Kerr wishes to campaign for changes in the victim notification scheme. I will certainly be with him on at least part of that j...
Liam Kerr Con
That is a fair challenge. What we would have done is build capacity such that the new HMP Barlinnie would not be 10 times over budget—it costs nearly £1 bill...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind members who wish to speak in the debate to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak buttons. I call Pauline McNeill to speak to and move ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Our prisons are bursting at the seams and we are being forced to release prisoners early, causing deep public concern. We have some of the highest levels of ...
Liam Kerr Con
Does it concern Pauline McNeill that there is no specific budget line in next year’s budget for throughcare?
Pauline McNeill Lab
It dumbfounds me at times. I have been taking part in debates on this issue for two decades now—indeed I have—and we know that the answers lie in throughcare...
Angela Constance SNP
I wonder whether Ms McNeill welcomes the fact that the new throughcare contract has been agreed and will be in force for the next financial year, with increa...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I absolutely do welcome it, but the two points are not mutually exclusive. I would like it to be visible, but of course I welcome the commitment. What I have...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I welcome the information that the cabinet secretary has shared with us about the commission that will be chaired by Martyn Evans. I look forward to receivin...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I, too, welcome the debate and the independent sentencing review. I know that it is dangerous to prejudge such things, but I confidently expect such a review...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I advise members that back-bench speeches should be of the agreed slot of up to four minutes and that we have no time in hand. An...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
Today’s debate examines the difficult issue of prison populations, the justice system and ensuring that the Scottish public are kept safe from harm. If we lo...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I have four minutes, and we have been asked to co-operate. I am sorry, Mr Kerr. I am fully aware that the funding increases are being made at the same time ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
It was not long ago that we debated the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill. The Scottish Conservatives argued that the bill would do very little t...
Angela Constance SNP
Will the member give way?
Jamie Greene Con
I do not have time. I have great respect for many of the individuals who have been named on the new review panel, but I fear—I hope that it is just that—tha...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Per capita, Scotland has one of the highest prison populations in western Europe. We are simply locking up too many people, and that cannot continue. I welco...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
Since this parliamentary session began, the challenges that the justice system faces have featured prominently in chamber business. Justice touches absolutel...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member give way?
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I will not, if Liam Kerr does not mind, as I am short of time. In response, Scotland has undertaken a range of proactive steps, including a broadening out o...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate on this important subject, and I welcome the establishment of the independent review. I agree with ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. Maggie Chapman will close on behalf of the Scottish Greens. 16:10