Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 18 February 2025
18 Feb 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Employer National Insurance Contributions
If we listen to Craig Hoy, it is as though the previous 14 years did not happen. Therefore, I will start where, I hope, there is some agreement with members on the Government benches. The fiscal inheritance that was left by the previous UK Conservative Government was nothing short of a disaster—debt at 100 per cent of gross domestic product, a £20 billion fiscal black hole and record low investment. After 14 years of chaos and division, the public realm was simply crumbling and public services were in urgent need of investment.
It was in that fiscal climate that Labour had to make a series of difficult decisions in the autumn budget, in order to end the era of austerity and provide billions of pounds of investment in public services. That budget included a record-breaking settlement for Scotland, with an additional £5.2 billion both this year and next, which is the largest settlement for the Scottish Government in the history of devolution.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16488, in the name of Tom Arthur, on employer national insurance contributions. 15:47
The Minister for Employment and Investment (Tom Arthur)
SNP
While debates in the chamber often reflect differing viewpoints, one fact remains undeniable: the United Kingdom Government’s planned changes to employer nat...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
Given that the minister raised the point about options, if it is not going to be employer national insurance contributions that are raised, what is it to be?...
Tom Arthur
SNP
I appreciate that the halcyon days of 4 July might seem rather distant to the Scottish Labour Party now, given where it is standing in the polls. Let me refr...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
Those are the choices.
Tom Arthur
SNP
That is the platform it stood on. We were told that Scottish Labour MPs would be at the heart of a UK Labour Government and that there would be no increases ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Minister, please resume your seat for a second. It is always important for the tenor of a debate to set out from the beginning that we do not need sedentary ...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I apologise for making sedentary interventions, but I point out that pointing at members in a slightly confrontationa...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I was not actually pointing—
Daniel Johnson
Lab
I was not talking about you.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Oh, not my pointing—somebody else’s pointing. Well, each of us is required to treat others with courtesy and respect. Having said all that, I think that we c...
Tom Arthur
SNP
I will try to restrain myself to a stern look. As I was saying, the consequences of the policy for the economy are stark. It will create risk, jeopardise jo...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I apologise for interrupting the debate but I seek to move a motion without notice under rule 17.2 of standing orders...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I thank Mr Burnett for his contribution. I am not minded to agree to a motion without notice at this point in the afternoon to vary the standing orders on ...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
It is refreshing to follow a Scottish National Party minister who is railing against a tax rise. It is just a pity that SNP members do not rail against their...
The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)
SNP
The Government has managed to balance its budget every single year and will continue to do so in the future. Our ability to pay for a larger public sector is...
Craig Hoy
Con
I will make two points to the minister. One is that that is to be welcomed, although productivity is not rising off the back of it. However, we also found ou...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
You will have to bring your remarks to a close.
Craig Hoy
Con
This year, councils are having to contemplate increases that are way above inflation because of ring fencing and the policies of Ivan McKee’s Government. Un...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
If we listen to Craig Hoy, it is as though the previous 14 years did not happen. Therefore, I will start where, I hope, there is some agreement with members ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I remind Mr Johnson what the UK Labour Government’s manifesto said in 2024. It said that a UK Labour Government “will not increase taxes on working people” ...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
The manifesto said, “taxes on working people”. The reality of the fiscal context was that there were difficult decisions to be made. This is not a magic bull...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP)
SNP
Made a request to intervene.
Daniel Johnson
Lab
I am in my final minute.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
The member is about to conclude.
Daniel Johnson
Lab
In my view, honesty is a primary responsibility of the Government. This Government needs to be honest about what it is proposing, but I do not believe that i...
Lorna Slater (Lothian) (Green)
Green
The legacy of 14 years of a Conservative Government at Westminster that believed that it was possible to cut its way to economic success is an increase in ch...
Craig Hoy
Con
As Lorna Slater rails against the rich, does she not realise that they are the most portable taxpayers and those who can relocate the easiest?
Lorna Slater
Green
That is why the Scottish Greens advocate a land value tax as an effective way of taxing wealth that cannot be packed up and moved to another country. The Un...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
I hear what the member is saying. I presume that she is arguing for a wealth tax, but does she not recognise that there is an in-year financial problem that ...