Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 18 February 2025
18 Feb 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Business Motion
Sandie Peggie, who has been a national health service nurse for 30 years, spoke up for her sex-based rights in her workplace because she did not want to share a changing facility with a biological male. However, in doing so, she is being treated as the perpetrator, not the victim.
I know that the Presiding Officer considers this case to be sub judice. Nothing I say here today will prejudice any live proceedings, because at the heart of this case are the policies of the Scottish National Party Government.
Presiding Officer, we need a ministerial statement on public sector workers and single-sex spaces. I am grateful to the Minister for Parliamentary Business for being open, despite the late notice, to considering that request.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-16518, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on changes to t...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I call Tess White to speak to and move amendment S6M-16518.1. You have up to five minutes, Ms White. 14:04
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Sandie Peggie, who has been a national health service nurse for 30 years, spoke up for her sex-based rights in her workplace because she did not want to shar...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
The protection of single-sex spaces based on biological sex is a matter of law—it is in the Equality Act 2010. In supporting the amendment calling for a stat...
Tess White
Con
I thank Jackie Baillie, and I completely agree with her that the Scottish Government and its agencies are not above the law. The situation that has arisen i...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I call Jamie Hepburn to respond on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau. 14:07
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Jamie Hepburn)
SNP
I will set out why we cannot accept the request for a statement and cannot agree to the amendment in Tess White’s name. First, she has clearly indicated that...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I entirely understand the Government’s reluctance to comment on a live criminal case—particularly a criminal case that involves a jury, which might be swayed...
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
There speaks the voice of inexperience—sub judice relates not just to criminal cases but to civil cases. That is an absolute nonsense from Mr Fraser. It is a...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Will the minister give way on that point?
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
I am afraid that I will not give way to Mr Kerr. We hear from him all too frequently, so we will not hear from him on this occasion. The last point, which i...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I remind all members of the need to treat one another with courtesy and respect. The question is, that amendment S6M-16518.1, in the name of Tess White, whi...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 14:13 Meeting suspended. 14:19 On resuming—
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We come to the vote on amendment S6M-16518.1, in the name of Tess White, which seeks to amend motion S6M-16518, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of th...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I had a technical issue. I would have voted no.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you, Ms Grahame. We will ensure that that is recorded.
Foysol Choudhury (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I had the same issue. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you, Mr Choudhury. We will ensure that that is recorded. For Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour,...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The result of the division on amendment S6M-16518.1, in the name of Tess White, is: For 47, Against 64, Abstentions 0. Amendment disagreed to.
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Parliament has just decided—we assume with the votes of Scottish National Party and Green members—not to allow a stat...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Let us hear Mr Ross. Do continue.
Douglas Ross
Con
SNP members seem to think that this is funny. I think that it is serious that Parliament should be able to address an issue that is both topical and urgent. ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
In line with long-standing convention and in common with my predecessors, I do not give reasons for selection decisions. I consider each question that is lod...
Douglas Ross
Con
When?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Mr Ross! I ask you to stop speaking from your seat in that manner. You are an experienced member of this Parliament, and I am sure that you are wholly aware ...
Douglas Ross
Con
On that, I have a point of order.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Further to that point of order, Mr Ross, I have nothing else to add, so please do not repeat what you have said previously.
Douglas Ross
Con
Further to my previous point of order, Presiding Officer, you said that you offered members opportunities throughout the week to raise those questions. Could...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Mr Ross, I have explained the situation quite clearly. I am not sitting here and explaining matters that you understand wholly and thoroughly. You are very w...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. In connection with rules 13.3, 13.4, 13.6B and 5.4 of standing orders, I ask for your guidance on a significant matte...