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Committee

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee 28 January 2025

28 Jan 2025 · S6 · Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Item of business
Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Adam, Karen SNP Banffshire and Buchan Coast Watch on SPTV

Good morning, and welcome to the third meeting in 2025, in session 6, of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. We have received apologies from Evelyn Tweed, and I welcome Clare Adamson, who is attending as a substitute member. Please note that Pam Gosal joins us online.

Our only public agenda item is continued consideration of the Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill at stage 2.

For anyone who is watching, I will reiterate the explanation of the process that I provided at the start of last week’s meeting. Members should have with them a copy of the bill, the marshalled list and the groupings of amendments. Those documents are available on the bill’s web page on the Scottish Parliament’s website.

I will call each amendment individually in the order in which they are listed on the marshalled list. The member who lodged the amendment should either move it or say, “Not moved”, when it is called. If that member does not move the amendment, any other member who is present may do so.

The groupings of amendments document sets out the amendments in the order in which they will be debated. There will be one debate on each group of amendments. In each debate, I will call the member who lodged the first amendment in the group to speak to and move that amendment and to speak to all the other amendments in the group. I will then call other members with amendments in the group to speak to but not to move their amendments and, if they so wish, to speak to other amendments in the group. I will then call any other members who wish to speak in the debate. Members who wish to speak should indicate that by catching my or the clerk’s attention. I will then call the minister if she has not already spoken in the debate.

Finally, I will call the member who moved the first amendment in the group to wind up and to indicate whether he or she wishes to press the amendment or to seek to withdraw it. If the amendment is pressed, I will put the question on it. If a member wishes to withdraw an amendment after it has been moved and debated, I will ask whether any member who is present objects. If there is an objection, I will immediately put the question on the amendment.

Later amendments in a group are not debated again when they are reached. If they are moved, I will put the question on them straight away.

If there is a division, only committee members are entitled to vote. Voting is done by a show of hands, and it is important that members keep their hands raised clearly until the clerk has recorded their names. If there is a tie, I must exercise a casting vote.

The committee is required to consider and decide on each bill section and schedule as well as its long title. I will put the question on each of those provisions at the appropriate point.

I note that our ambition is to conclude our stage 2 consideration of the bill this morning. However, if that does not happen, we will continue our consideration next week.

Section 51—Change of name to the Scottish Legal Services Commission

In the same item of business

The Convener (Karen Adam) SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the third meeting in 2025, in session 6, of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. We have received apologies...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 312, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 335 to 346, 438 to 441, 538, 443 to 447, 539, 448, 540, 467, 499 and 523. I point out ...
The Minister for Victims and Community Safety (Siobhian Brown) SNP
Good morning, convener and committee members. The first set of amendments in the group relates to the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission and is the outcome...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I thank the minister for the engagement that we have had on my amendments 539 and 540 in this group. The substantive amendment is 540, and amendment 539 woul...
The Convener SNP
As no other members wish to come in, I call the minister to wind up.
Siobhian Brown SNP
I thank Maggie Chapman, and I acknowledge the concerns that the consumer panel has raised. We would not be able to get involved in the SLCC process—it will b...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 313, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 314, 315, 317, 318, 320, 330, 356, 362 to 371, 381, 449, 451, 460, 471, 474 to 477, 47...
Siobhian Brown SNP
The amendments in this group are largely technical. The main amendment is 315, which, at the request of the SLCC, puts a matter beyond doubt by expressly pro...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 557, in the name of Paul O’Kane, is grouped with amendments 558 to 560, 643, 563, 316, 564, 565, 571, 573, 578, 582, 590, 605 and 640. I remind mem...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
My amendments in this group seek to retain the current preliminary steps that the commission must take in respect of a complaint, specifically to determine w...
Siobhian Brown SNP
Paul O’Kane’s amendments in the group would place back in statute a requirement for the SLCC to determine whether a complaint was “frivolous, vexatious or w...
Paul O’Kane Lab
The minister might well be coming to these points. I appreciate what she said about the flexibility that will be afforded to the SLCC in relation to its rule...
Siobhian Brown SNP
On page 32 of the bill, section 41 sets out that, in order for the SLCC to apply the eligibility test, it will need to consult the Lord President, Scottish m...
The Convener SNP
I see that no other members wish to speak, so I call Paul O’Kane to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 557.
Paul O’Kane Lab
Inaudible.
The Convener SNP
We will suspend for a few moments to deal with the technical problems that we are having. 10:00 Meeting suspended. 10:02 On resuming—
The Convener SNP
Welcome back. I call Paul O’Kane to wind up, and to press or withdraw amendment 557.
Paul O’Kane Lab
I will wind up on the amendments. I think that we are all trying to push towards a similar outcome in this debate, which is that there should be a process e...
The Convener SNP
The question is that amendment 557 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener SNP
There will be a division. As this is our first division, I remind members to show their vote by raising their hand. For O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)...
The Convener SNP
The result of the division is: For 1, Against 5, Abstentions 1. Amendment 557 disagreed to. Amendments 558 to 560 not moved. Amendment 314 moved—Siobhian ...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 572, in the name of Paul O’Kane, is in a group on its own.
Paul O’Kane Lab
Amendment 572 is a relatively simple amendment that would leave out section 54(7) of the bill. As drafted, section 54(7) would repeal section 12 of the Legal...
Siobhian Brown SNP
Amendment 572 seeks to reinstate the express provision contained in section 12 of the Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Act 2007 on how the SLCC must...
Paul O’Kane Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Siobhian Brown SNP
Yes.
Paul O’Kane Lab
I am grateful to the minister for taking an intervention. It perhaps speaks to the point in my previous amendment about understanding the difference between ...
Siobhian Brown SNP
I will come to that further along, but as I said when we debated the previous group, the SLCC will have to go to consultation with the Lord President, Scotti...
The Convener SNP
Thank you. I ask Paul O’Kane to press or withdraw amendment 572.
Paul O’Kane Lab
I do not intend to say too much more, other than that I think that this amendment is about ensuring that there is a provision in the bill to ensure natural j...