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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 21 January 2025

21 Jan 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Women’s State Pensions (Compensation)
Ross, Douglas Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

Like the two previous speakers, I welcome the WASPI women to Parliament today, as I did last Wednesday, when Kenny Gibson led an excellent debate in which we heard testimony from MSPs on all sides of the chamber, across the parties, about the work that they have being doing on behalf of their constituents for many years.

I have mentioned in previous WASPI debates the efforts of Sheila Forbes in Moray, who was the first person to contact me about the issue, long before I was elected, when I was a candidate. She brought together a group of affected people in Moray who have were fighting for justice and continue to do so to this day, because they certainly do not feel that they have received it from the UK Labour Government. I accept that they also have major criticisms of previous Conservative and Labour Governments and of the Liberal Democrat-Conservative coalition Government.

At the heart of what we are debating today is the PHSO’s report and the role of the PHSO. I looked at the PHSO’s website this week. It states:

“We independently investigate complaints about UK government departments ... We believe complaints have the power to reveal the truth, create lasting change and inspire a better relationship between people and public services.”

That is crucial, and it goes to the heart of what we are debating today. Taking the politics out of the issue and looking at it independently, the PHSO has said that there was “maladministration”—not, perhaps, for everyone, but for a significant cohort of women who did not receive the notification that they deserved and who should, as a result, be compensated.

Back in May last year, when we debated the issue, I agreed that the PHSO’s recommendations, which at that time had just gone to the UK Conservative Government, should be considered in full, including the question of compensation. We then went into the general election campaign, in which probably every single Labour candidate in Scotland and across the United Kingdom was urging people to vote for them to deliver on the PHSO recommendations, to address the injustice, to change things in the Department for Work and Pensions and across the UK Government, and to deliver that compensation.

In the Labour Administration’s first six months, however, it dealt the WASPI campaigners a very bitter blow. It said, “Well, we do think that you have suffered maladministration and we will say sorry, but we will not pay you for that.” I think that that is indefensible. I say in all fairness to Paul O’Kane—whom I like, and who is a very experienced parliamentarian—that that is why he has struggled in the debate today. I cannot listen to what he, on one hand, is saying about the Scottish Labour position and what its members are doing to fight for their constituents and for the cause when, on the other hand, his Secretary of State for Work and Pensions at the UK level, Liz Kendall, said this—

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16160, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on Women Against State Pension Inequality. Members who wis...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I do not think that those buttons are working to allow us to indicate that we want to speak.
The Presiding Officer NPA
I can certainly see those buttons on my screen. I thank Mr Balfour for raising that issue and we will keep an eye on it. I call the cabinet secretary. 14:32
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
The Scottish Government has consistently called on the United Kingdom Government to right the historic wrongs suffered by the WASPI women. The First Minister...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I support the cabinet secretary’s remarks so far. I hope that she is right that the Parliament will speak with one voice today. Will she give an update on di...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Certainly. There have been numerous letters and debating points that we have discussed with the UK Government. I stand ready to send yet another letter to th...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary’s remarks completely fail to acknowledge the UK Labour Government’s commitment to the pension triple lock—a commitment that I hope she ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I share any concern about the triple lock being diminished. Quite frankly, however, Mr O’Kane’s party is in Government now and he needs to take responsibilit...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Paul O’Kane to speak to and move amendment S6M-16160.1. 14:47
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I will begin, as I have done in debates in which I have spoken on this topic in this chamber in my four years in Parliament, by acknowledging all the WASPI w...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Paul O’Kane Lab
Presiding Officer, I am afraid that I am finding it very difficult to hear. I do not know whether that is due to the gallery clearing or as a result of noise...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you, Mr O’Kane. I appreciate that. We will just allow a moment for the gallery to clear.
Paul O’Kane Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I was about to make the point that there has been an undertaking to learn from the experience, to understand what the issues ar...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Does the member think that it was wrong for the Prime Minister to stand up and say that he would compensate the WASPI women? Should he fully apologise for no...
Paul O’Kane Lab
I think that it was wrong of Mr Balfour’s party not to engage with the PHSO report in any meaningful way in the previous UK parliamentary session and, indeed...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
On the point about the Labour apology, will Mr O’Kane tell me how much, in cash terms, in the open market, a Labour apology is worth to those WASPI women who...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Mr O’Kane, before you respond, I gently remind our visitors, who are very welcome to their Parliament, that applause or any other contributions from the publ...
Paul O’Kane Lab
I am coming on to that point about that disappointment and what else I feel could be done. An apology is important, and I have outlined why. I gently say to...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Let us hear Mr O’Kane.
Paul O’Kane Lab
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer.
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will Mr O’Kane give way?
Paul O’Kane Lab
Not at this stage. I have much to get through, as Mr Stewart will appreciate. I recognise the importance of what the ombudsman has said about the apology an...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
On Paul O’Kane’s point about paying a fair level of compensation, surely the UK Government should be paying the full level of money that has been taken away ...
Paul O’Kane Lab
I have to say to the member that, in a spirit of consensus, I am trying to make points relating to the PHSO report, and the PHSO has outlined a number of rec...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Just to be clear, in the statement by the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions setting out the UK Government position, she did not say, “I don’t agree wi...
Paul O’Kane Lab
As I have said previously, in this speech and in my other contributions on this matter, the door should not be closed and there is a process that should be e...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Like the two previous speakers, I welcome the WASPI women to Parliament today, as I did last Wednesday, when Kenny Gibson led an excellent debate in which we...
Paul O’Kane Lab
Made a request to intervene.
Douglas Ross Con
I will give way to Paul O’Kane when I have read out Liz Kendall’s response, and I would like him to either agree or disagree with what she said. In her state...