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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 15 January 2025

15 Jan 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill

I am pleased to close the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour. We will support the bill today, although we have had significant concerns about it during the scrutiny process.

We recognise that the bill comes to us as a result of the Angiolini review, and we accept that some of the changes should be made. We believe, however, that there still needs to be significant cultural change in our police service and that the bill in itself is not going to deliver that. The police service itself accepts that it is institutionally sexist and racist, and the Sheku Bayoh and Ian Packer cases, for example, highlight some of those concerns. The bill is technical and far from transformational, and we believe that it fails to address some of the legitimate concerns that are being raised by the public about policing and about the handling of complaints. We therefore agree with Maggie Chapman that the bill is unlikely to address some of the significant issues that are raised in high-profile cases.

At stage 1, there were significant concerns about the adequacy of the financial memorandum, and we are pleased that those have been addressed. We were also concerned specifically, as Pauline McNeill said, that the amendments relating to vetting procedures were lodged late and were therefore not scrutinised by the committee. The Scottish Police Federation and Unison have raised concerns about some of the potential implications for police officers and civilian staff. Scottish Labour has been concerned about both the level of engagement with the unions and some of the concerns that they are raising.

As I have said before, I warmly welcome the additional resources that have been put into vetting by the Scottish Government as a result of high-profile cases such as that of Wayne Couzens. We recognise that there is a need for vetting to be strengthened, but, given the lack of scrutiny during the bill process and what the cabinet secretary has said today, I very much hope that it will be possible to have a cross-party consensus as we proceed with the changes.

There is real concern about how the legislation will be perceived in the employment space and that it will be used as a disciplinary procedure. I understand that the Scottish Government’s position is that the duty of candour relates to institutions and does not impact on the employment rights of individuals. It would be helpful if the cabinet secretary could put that on the record today, given the specific concerns that have been raised by Unison and the Scottish Police Federation.

The Criminal Justice Committee heard evidence from a number of witnesses who complained about their treatment by the police and about the police complaints process. It is fair to say that some of the evidence that the committee heard was shocking and harrowing. Both Fergus Ewing and Maggie Chapman have spoken today about specific cases. However, it is far from clear that the bill that we are discussing will make any difference to the experience of such witnesses.

We recognise the very difficult job that our police service performs and the significant risks that the police take daily. However, public institutions must behave with candour. We pay tribute to all the campaigners whose activity has led to this type of legislation being lodged across the UK, although we recognise that the bill falls short of what is required to address some of those injustices and breaches of trust. We look forward to continuing to work with members across the chamber on the issues, recognising that the bill, if passed, is unlikely to make the significant differences that we believe are required if we are to meet the challenges that have been put to us.

17:25  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
As members will be aware, the Presiding Officer is required under standing orders to decide whether, in her view, any provision of the bill relates to a prot...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
We move to the debate on motion S6M-16093, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill. I would be grateful...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
I am pleased to open the debate on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill. I express my thanks to the committees that took part in conside...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives will vote for the bill today, believing that it will improve the complaints process for members of the public and for police offic...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Scottish Labour believes that we must act to ensure the highest standards in our police force. The power held by police officers and police organisations req...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I am pleased to open the stage 3 debate on behalf of the Scottish Greens and to support the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill. I thank ev...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I add my thanks to the committee and those who gave evidence. I also thank Lady Elish for laying the foundations for the important and necessary reforms that...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the open debate. 17:07
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
Although I am not speaking this afternoon in my capacity as convener of the Criminal Justice Committee, I put on the record my thanks to my committee colleag...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
When I spoke in the stage 1 debate on the bill, I reiterated the point, which has been made today, that we police by consent in Scotland. We ought to cherish...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to winding-up speeches. 17:17
Maggie Chapman Green
In my opening speech, I spoke about some of the worst things that bad policing can lead to—about people lost to violent and early deaths and about families w...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Members will wish to know that we have a little time in hand. 17:21
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to close the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour. We will support the bill today, although we have had significant concerns about it during the ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I have listened carefully to the stage 3 debate, having not been directly involved in the bill until shortly before the stage 3 consideration commenced. Sinc...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
During the consideration of amendments, I cited a constituency case of someone who made a complaint against the police 16 months ago but was told yesterday t...
Liam Kerr Con
That is a very important point, which goes towards what the bill will achieve. As I set out at the start, there are areas in which I think that the bill is f...
Angela Constance SNP
I thank all members for their contributions and for the spirit of constructive co-operation that has, by and large, been evident throughout the journey of th...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Cabinet secretary, could you pause for a second? I am aware of several conversations taking place across the chamber, and I would be grateful if we focused o...
Angela Constance SNP
I reiterate my thanks to the bill team and to officials from Government departments and policing bodies across the four home nations who have engaged with my...