Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 07 January 2025
07 Jan 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Child Poverty
Everyone here wants to reduce and, we hope, eradicate child poverty. What we are debating is how best to achieve that, which is where we differ. John Swinney and Anas Sarwar, who is not in the chamber today, believe in the big state approach: high taxes, central control, rules and regulations, layers of bureaucracy and spending ever more taxpayers’ money. The trouble is that that approach has been tried and it has failed. It has been the Scottish National Party’s approach for 18 years and, before that, it was Labour’s.
The old left-wing approach has not worked. Poverty has not been reduced, our economy has not grown stronger, people do not feel better off, prosperity has not been spread across the country and opportunities to get ahead remain far too limited. The old approach of the SNP and Labour too often managed only to keep people stuck in poverty.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16003, in the name of John Swinney, on tackling child poverty and inequality through the Scottish budget....
The First Minister (John Swinney)
SNP
When I became First Minister, I made it abundantly clear that the foremost priority of my Government would be the eradication of child poverty in Scotland. I...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Given the high cost of the benefits bill, how will that be paid for if the Scottish Government cannot produce the economic growth that we so desperately need?
The First Minister
SNP
The Government has a fully costed budget, which is available for Parliament to scrutinise and to support in February and which provides for the cost that I a...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
In the First Minister’s opening remarks, he talked about the root issues, and one that he correctly identified is good jobs. Good jobs are fuelled by skills,...
The First Minister
SNP
We must ensure that we are able to make the appropriate provision that is necessary for the size and scale of the population that requires to be educated in ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
The First Minister is setting out what is in the draft budget, but he knows from today’s announcement that he will get that budget through. I am interested i...
The First Minister
SNP
I take nothing for granted about the budget process. The discussions that have been constructively engaged in by the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the Labou...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Everyone here wants to reduce and, we hope, eradicate child poverty. What we are debating is how best to achieve that, which is where we differ. John Swinney...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Is Russell Findlay genuinely trying to get the rest of the chamber to agree that he, as an ardent supporter of Liz Truss, should be trusted on how to support...
Russell Findlay
Con
Paul O’Kane should know better. Liz Truss was in power for 50 days. This lot have been in power for 18 years. The definition of insanity is doing the same th...
The First Minister
SNP
Will Russell Findlay take an intervention?
Russell Findlay
Con
I will—yes.
The First Minister
SNP
If Mr Findlay will not address the Liz Truss issue, will he say whether he considers that the agenda of austerity that was pursued consistently from 2010 to ...
Russell Findlay
Con
John Swinney has squandered countless millions, if not billions, of pounds through his absolute incompetence. That is why my party believes that a different ...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Deputy Presiding Officer, I take this opportunity to wish you and colleagues across the chamber a happy new year. I begin, as I always do in such debates, b...
The First Minister
SNP
I am anxious to engage with Mr O’Kane on the question of agreement across the parliamentary spectrum. One of the points that I made in my speech is that Parl...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
Of course it is the Parliament’s responsibility to hold the targets in our hands. It was agreed across the chamber—prior to my being here—that they should be...
The First Minister
SNP
Will Mr O’Kane take an intervention?
Paul O’Kane
Lab
If Mr Swinney allows me to make a little progress, I will allow him back in. The point that I was moving on to make is about the length of time that we have...
The First Minister
SNP
I am grateful to Mr O’Kane for giving way for a second time. I point out to him that we will only have 20 years of an SNP Government if we win the 2026 elect...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
First, I say to the First Minister that it feels longer—like 30 years, perhaps—that the SNP has been in power. Perhaps I should have paid more attention in t...
Stephen Kerr
Con
Will the member give way?
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I will, in a moment. I was coming on to speak about the down payments that have been made to tackle those issues at the UK level: the raising of the minimum...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Be brief, Mr Kerr, please.
Stephen Kerr
Con
Does Paul O’Kane accept that many economists—in fact, the majority of economists—predict that, because of the national insurance increases that are being bro...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Mr O’Kane, please start to bring your remarks to a close.
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I will, Presiding Officer. Given that, clearly, Russell Findlay has some kind of idea that we, on this side of the chamber, should all be listening to about...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
The Scottish Government’s motion describes child poverty as its “single greatest priority” and as a “national mission”. All political parties agree that it s...
Collette Stevenson (East Kilbride) (SNP)
SNP
In relation to the policy decisions that have been made by Labour, I note the fact that a handful of Labour MSPs are in the chamber for this debate about era...