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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 December 2024

18 Dec 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

There is no doubt that our education system is in crisis, and it has been the top subject of political debate for many years. However, the inspectorate has played no role in blowing the whistle on any of the issues. Where was the indication from the inspectorate that Scottish educational performance was slipping down the international rankings? Where was the highlighting by the inspectorate of our serious and deep-seated problems with behaviour in the classroom? Where was the highlighting by the inspectorate of our deep problems with absence, particularly following the pandemic? The inspectorate was itself absent on all those big issues.

Then we have the SQA, which dramatically lost confidence during the pandemic as a result of the marking episode and the arrangements that it put in place, as Ross Greer has just described.

Both those organisations are absolutely essential if we are to provide robust challenge and to have confidence and trust in the organisation of education in Scotland. If our national bodies are not respected and have no authority, how can they hold local authorities to account for how they perform? Equally, how do those bodies challenge the Government? If they are weak, education is weak. That is why we need dramatic change and why we will support the bill today.

The SQA needs to be changed and we need a new qualifications body. The higher history episode of recent months shows exactly why we need a separation of the accreditation function. The fact that the chief executive—the chief examiner—did her own investigation into the performance of her organisation in that marking episode shows exactly why the system is not working. Even if it was the best review in the world, nobody would believe it, because it was not independent. It needs to be independent.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15876, in the name of Jenny Gilruth, on the Education (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I advise members that t...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I am pleased to present the Education (Scotland) Bill and set out its general principles to Parliament. I start by thanking the Education, Children and Young...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
We will support the bill at stage 1. However, I hope that the cabinet secretary understands that there are deep concerns and that the bill will require funda...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Mr Rennie will know from our meeting yesterday that I am very open to engaging with the Opposition parties on a range of amendments. The fundamental point th...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I agree with Jenny Gilruth about the need for a change of culture. Does that mean that she can assure the Parliament that, when the new bodies are formed, th...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
The member raises an important point, which was addressed when I gave evidence to the committee in October. We are talking about people’s employment rights, ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Given that accreditation will remain within the qualifications body, does the cabinet secretary believe that the proposed structure is sufficient and will be...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
We discussed that at the education committee in October. The member raises an important point about accreditation. In recent times, there have been some chal...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
Does the cabinet secretary agree that a lot of the issues around independence and separation arise because of the attitude of people as much as the legal lines?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am more than happy to speak to the member about that. Perhaps he can give me more detail on it outwith the debate. However, I recognise the challenge in re...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I invite members who wish to speak in the debate to press their request-to-speak buttons. 15:01
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee about our scrutiny of the Education (Scotland) Bill. As the relativel...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the member give way?
Douglas Ross Con
Yes.
Martin Whitfield Lab
I am very grateful to Douglas Ross for taking an intervention. Was he as disappointed as I was by the Scottish Government’s response to the committee’s repor...
Douglas Ross Con
I was warned within an inch of my life to be very careful about the speech that I am delivering as the convener of the committee. Perhaps I may intervene lat...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I, too, thank the clerks to the Education, Children and Young People Committee for the power of work that they have put into the Education (Scotland) Bill to...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open on behalf of Scottish Labour. I thank my committee colleagues and all the organisations, individuals, pupils, parents and teachers and s...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I hope that the member heard, at the committee and in the chamber today, my willingness to engage on amendments. Is it the Scottish Labour Party’s position t...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I will come on to explain the position that my party will take this evening, and I will allude to the committee’s recommendations. Reform is essential. Last...
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
You will recall that some of the evidence that we heard at committee was that, at some point, we have to say no to some of the many interest groups being inc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Always speak through the chair.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
The member makes a very good point, but the fact of the matter is that there is no guarantee of any particular representation on the committee as the bill st...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Ross Greer to open on behalf of the Scottish Greens. 15:26
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
The bill has certainly been a long time coming. I thank everyone who has been involved, not just in the stage 1 process, but in the years of work that brough...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Willie Rennie to open on behalf of the Scottish Liberal Democrats. 15:32
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
There is no doubt that our education system is in crisis, and it has been the top subject of political debate for many years. However, the inspectorate has p...
John Mason Ind
Would the member accept that the work was reviewed externally?
Willie Rennie LD
The process was reviewed externally, but the involvement of the Welsh representative in the details of the review was not substantial. I hope that John Mason...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?