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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 27 November 2024

27 Nov 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Bus Drivers (Abuse)
Baker, Claire Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

I draw attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests and my membership of Unite the union.

I send our deepest condolences to the family of Keith Rollinson. Everyone should be safe and respected at their place of work, and no one should have to endure abuse and violence in the workplace. I want to be clear that violence is never acceptable. It is a criminal matter and it should always be treated as such.

There was public shock at the attack on Keith Rollinson, and it has been sobering to read the survey of bus drivers from Unite the union, which highlights that violence, abuse and sexual harassment are not isolated incidents on buses but are frequent occurrences that are not being taken seriously.

Bus drivers are facing unacceptable health and safety risks, including verbal and physical assault, which are carried out by a minority of people, of all ages, travelling on buses. However, evidence suggests that that has been exacerbated by the extension of the concessionary travel scheme to people under the age of 22.

I emphasise that we support the young person’s bus pass and recognise the significant benefits that it is delivering. It is enabling young people to access education and employment, encouraging a modal shift in transport and leading to investment in bus services. The behaviour of a minority of passengers should not impact on the success of the scheme, but we must not be complacent or ignore the impact of antisocial behaviour on our bus drivers.

Unite the union has conducted a survey of its members. The figures are sobering, revealing historically high levels of abuse and major concerns about safety on public transport. Of the respondents, 84 per cent said that abuse at work had increased in the past 12 months. Of those experiencing abuse, 83 per cent reported verbal abuse and 16 per cent reported physical abuse. The low level of reporting is worrying: 79 per cent of the abuse was not reported to the police, while almost half did not report it to their employers. Of those who did, the majority were dissatisfied with the employer response. The lack of reporting devalues the abuse that is taking place. I thank Unite for undertaking the survey to show the extent of the problem. Finally, 51 per cent of bus drivers said that they do not feel safe at work, and 85 per cent said that they believe that it is now just part of the job. Abuse at work should never be just part of the job, and we must bring an end to this culture.

This is not the first debate on abuse of bus drivers. Almost a year ago, Graham Simpson led a members’ business debate on antisocial behaviour on buses, which came at the publication point of the evaluation report on the young person’s bus pass. Examples of aggression, intimidation and physical assault were highlighted in the chamber. When the case of an assault against a teenager was raised in the chamber in 2022, the then Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans, Keith Brown, said:

“I will raise the issue with those who are responsible for the bus pass scheme, to gather views on whether the option of withdrawing bus passes ... might present a solution.”—[Official Report, 26 October 2022; c 19-20.]

I wrote to the Government in March, following bus drivers in my region highlighting to me the conditions in which they were working. The Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity, Jim Fairlie, said:

“Transport Scotland is continuing to look at what may be possible and appropriate in terms of providing a deterrent or sanction”.

I then wrote to Transport Scotland, which, in June, repeated that position.

This week, Transport Scotland has gone further in response to our calls for stronger action, saying:

“We are working ... to develop further sanctions”

including

“a process for temporary suspension of concessionary travel cards.”

We must see action now. Scottish Labour is clear that there have to be consequences for persistent abusive behaviour towards bus drivers and passengers. Aggressive and intimidating behaviour and vandalism are leading to the cancellation of bus services, which impacts on other passengers and increases costs to operators as buses are taken off service for repairs, and it negatively impacts on passenger numbers, because people—including young people, who are often the victims of assault and bullying connected to bus travel—choose not to travel by bus.

I remind the Scottish Government that we have seen little progress since the publication of a report that it commissioned into the safety of women and girls on public transport. If those recommendations were introduced, they would go some way towards addressing antisocial behaviour.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15612, in the name of Claire Baker, on tackling abuse of bus drivers. I invite those members who wish to...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I draw attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests and my membership of Unite the union. I send our deepest condolences to the family of Kei...
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
The report’s actions have been carried out. I hosted a summit on that with all relevant bus partners. If Claire Baker has not seen the actions that have take...
Claire Baker Lab
My understanding is that more could be done from the previous report, such as improving lighting, staffing, reporting and training for staff. If that was imp...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
To be clear, does Claire Baker also support sanctions for fare-paying adult passengers who commit antisocial behaviour on our buses?
Claire Baker Lab
Yes, I certainly do. The last line of our motion does not make a distinction in relation to the age of the person who would be sanctioned for their behaviour...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I associate myself with Claire Baker’s comments about the tragic death of Keith Rollinson. That was devastating, and our thoughts go out to his loved ones, f...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will Mark Ruskell take an intervention?
Mark Ruskell Green
If there is time in hand, I certainly will.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is no time in hand. It is up to the member whether he wishes to absorb the intervention.
Mark Ruskell Green
I will take a very brief intervention.
Daniel Johnson Lab
Mark Ruskell is right that employers absolutely have a responsibility to drivers, but do passengers not also have a responsibility to uphold the decent norms...
Mark Ruskell Green
Absolutely. That is enshrined in law and in the conditions of carriage, and I will come on to that. I am shocked that many of the buses that we have in Scot...
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
I thank Claire Baker for highlighting this important issue. Bus drivers are at the front line of delivery of vital public transport services. Our communitie...
Claire Baker Lab
I understand that under Andy Burnham’s scheme in Manchester, people have to sign a code of conduct before they get access to a pass. Is the Government consid...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Yes, we are looking at that for all passengers who have a concessionary bus pass. Perpetrators of antisocial behaviour can be of any age, and the basis of o...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I need to make progress. There is limited time in the debate. Fairness and consistency must underpin that work. I recently met Unite to discuss its 15-point...
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
During the past fortnight, we have spent a significant amount of time discussing the topic that Claire Baker has brought to the chamber this afternoon—tackli...
Claire Baker Lab
Graeme Simpson’s members’ business debate was a year ago, so does Sue Webber share my disappointment that not much has changed in the past year? I appreciate...
Sue Webber Con
We all would, and it is helpful that it appears to be the case that, in the debate this afternoon, we are all in the same place. That acceptance will go a lo...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Claire Baker and the Labour Party for bringing this serious and important debate to the chamber this afternoon. Scottish Liberal Democrats will suppo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I remind all members who wish to speak in the debate to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak buttons. I advise me...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Members who have spoken in the debate so far have rightly stressed that it is a minority that causes the problems, but I suggest that it is a growing minorit...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Will the member give way?
Alex Rowley Lab
If the cabinet secretary is quick.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Very briefly, cabinet secretary.
Fiona Hyslop SNP
The member is asking me to lobby bus operators, but does he realise that the UK Labour Government could now use its responsibilities in relation to vehicle r...
Alex Rowley Lab
I am not asking the cabinet secretary to lobby bus companies. I am saying that the Government is putting millions upon millions of pounds into those bus comp...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I, too, welcome the debate, which was unfortunately prompted by dreadful, tragic circumstances, and I send my condolences to Keith Rollinson’s family and fri...