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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 27 November 2024

27 Nov 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Care

It is a pleasure to support the motion.

The cabinet secretary is right to highlight the fact that the national care service, or its concept, is essential for the future of Scotland. Social care is so critical to all aspects of our civic society that most families in Scotland will have experience of care requirements in their own households. Therefore, it is essential that we get this right. Unfortunately, it seems that no good idea can survive contact with the calamity of this Government’s administration of it.

Time and again, all parties have offered good will to the Government in an effort to get the bill right. Numerous months have been spent in committee trying to support the Government to get the bill right, but we have ended up in a position in which key stakeholders across local government, the trade unions and the social enterprise sector have withdrawn their support. That is a disastrous performance by the Government, and it should be reflecting on it with humility instead of simply trying to deny reality.

The commitment to establish a national care service was made by the Scottish National Party Government in 2021, in the wake of the pandemic, but, in the three years since then, £30 million of public expenditure has delivered precisely nothing of any real value to the people of Scotland. We are no further forward, and the crushing issues in the social care sector persist: rising delayed discharge rates in the national health service, low pay, poor working conditions and a lack of choice and agency for people who receive and provide care.

In pursuing the bill, the Scottish Government has tried and failed to be all things to all people. It has lacked decisiveness, grit and a vision of what the national care service should look like. It should have learned the right lessons from the creation of the national health service. When Aneurin Bevan steered that legislation through the UK Parliament, it was not some immaculate conception; there was immense challenge and dispute around the creation of the NHS. It took grit, determination and a decision on what it would be—it would not happen in local government or in privatised hospitals but would be a national service. At least, at that time, the Government made a decision; the minister, the cabinet secretary and the Scottish Government have not had the gumption to do that on this occasion.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15613, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on addressing the crisis in social care now. Members who wish to pa...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
The Scottish National Party Government has been in power for 17 years. It has had 17 years to come up with a sustainable plan for social care, but it has sim...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray) SNP
Will Jackie Baillie give way?
Jackie Baillie Lab
Let me finish my point first. Just last week, I heard of an older person who is nearing end of life and is unable to get a care package at home. Cabinet sec...
Neil Gray SNP
Clearly, that is why we need reform. The critical issue that we have before us, which Jackie Baillie and I were able to hear directly from Scottish Care at i...
Jackie Baillie Lab
This is a speech, not an intervention.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Briefly, Mr Gray.
Neil Gray SNP
Is it Labour’s position that Scottish public services should be funding a Treasury tax grab, or can we unite to say that the UK Government needs to think again?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Jackie Baillie, I can give you the time back. Interventions will need to be briefer.
Jackie Baillie Lab
I am grateful to you for giving me the time back, Deputy Presiding Officer—that will probably come out of the cabinet secretary’s speech. The SNP Scottish Go...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray) SNP
Over the course of our lifetimes, every one of us will be touched by social care, social work or community health support, whether we access care directly or...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
All of that is well and good, but what is the cabinet secretary going to do about the massive deficits that are accruing in all the health and social care pa...
Neil Gray SNP
We have invested an extra £1 billion in social care over this session of Parliament. We are providing a substantial investment to health boards and local aut...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Neil Gray SNP
I will need to make progress, but I will try to come back to Ms Duncan-Glancy if I can. Derek Feeley recommended that we establish a national care service, ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
One area that the cabinet secretary has not picked up on in the letter that was shared with him this week is the comment that, “As we wait for reform, membe...
Neil Gray SNP
I say that that is totally unacceptable, which is why we need reform. We need investment to be delivered where it can make the best possible change for disab...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I declare my interest as a practising national health service general practitioner. The motion that is before us highlights the SNP’s mismanagement of its f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Gillian Mackay, who joins us remotely. 15:14
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate and will reiterate points that have been expressed by colleagues. It comes as no surprise to us that the so...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Can Gillian Mackay confirm the stance of her party on the continuance of the national care service bill? I read in the press that the Greens had reversed the...
Gillian Mackay Green
I thank Mr Cole-Hamilton for his intervention. At my party’s conference earlier in the autumn, the party voted for a motion that removed support for the bil...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am grateful to Jackie Baillie for making time for the debate. She hit the right tone with her opening remarks and did well to remind members that, for this...
Neil Gray SNP
It is not true to say that no one wants the bill. The letter from disabled people’s organisations was very clear, and I am sure that Mr Cole-Hamilton is rece...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
When disabled people’s organisations learn that £30 million has already been wasted on this bureaucratic exercise—that is the equivalent of 1,200 care worker...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
We do not need the bill in order to introduce the key vital aspects that the Labour Party has identified in its motion. We can find other mechanisms to do so...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. I advise members that we have no time in hand. In fact, we are already behind schedule. I call Paul Sweeney, to be followed by C...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to support the motion. The cabinet secretary is right to highlight the fact that the national care service, or its concept, is essential fo...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Paul Sweeney has made a really good case about the SNP trying to dress up the NCS in the clothes of the much-loved national treasure that is the NHS. Does he...