Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 27 November 2024
27 Nov 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Care
I am grateful to Jackie Baillie for making time for the debate. She hit the right tone with her opening remarks and did well to remind members that, for this Government, social care is often an afterthought. That was never more true than it was during the pandemic. The tragedy of Scotland’s pandemic stories is, indeed, found in our care homes.
Although I am grateful that I am speaking in the debate, I sincerely hope that this is the last time that we will have cause to debate the ill-fated national care service. To paraphrase Monty Python, I say that this is a dead parrot of a policy. It has joined the choir invisible. The only reason why it is not pushing up daisies is that it has been nailed to its perch.
If we are honest with ourselves, we accept that the Scottish Government has now moved from adaptation to damage limitation to just trying to save face—and I fear that it might even be beyond that, because nobody wants the bill any more. The Government has lost the dressing room. In Gillian Mackay’s response to my intervention, we heard that even the Green Party has recognised that the idea is toast and that there are aspects that are contained in the bill that we can adapt through other means. I will come to that later.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15613, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on addressing the crisis in social care now. Members who wish to pa...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
The Scottish National Party Government has been in power for 17 years. It has had 17 years to come up with a sustainable plan for social care, but it has sim...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray)
SNP
Will Jackie Baillie give way?
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Let me finish my point first. Just last week, I heard of an older person who is nearing end of life and is unable to get a care package at home. Cabinet sec...
Neil Gray
SNP
Clearly, that is why we need reform. The critical issue that we have before us, which Jackie Baillie and I were able to hear directly from Scottish Care at i...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
This is a speech, not an intervention.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Briefly, Mr Gray.
Neil Gray
SNP
Is it Labour’s position that Scottish public services should be funding a Treasury tax grab, or can we unite to say that the UK Government needs to think again?
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Jackie Baillie, I can give you the time back. Interventions will need to be briefer.
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I am grateful to you for giving me the time back, Deputy Presiding Officer—that will probably come out of the cabinet secretary’s speech. The SNP Scottish Go...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray)
SNP
Over the course of our lifetimes, every one of us will be touched by social care, social work or community health support, whether we access care directly or...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
All of that is well and good, but what is the cabinet secretary going to do about the massive deficits that are accruing in all the health and social care pa...
Neil Gray
SNP
We have invested an extra £1 billion in social care over this session of Parliament. We are providing a substantial investment to health boards and local aut...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Neil Gray
SNP
I will need to make progress, but I will try to come back to Ms Duncan-Glancy if I can. Derek Feeley recommended that we establish a national care service, ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
One area that the cabinet secretary has not picked up on in the letter that was shared with him this week is the comment that, “As we wait for reform, membe...
Neil Gray
SNP
I say that that is totally unacceptable, which is why we need reform. We need investment to be delivered where it can make the best possible change for disab...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
I declare my interest as a practising national health service general practitioner. The motion that is before us highlights the SNP’s mismanagement of its f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I call Gillian Mackay, who joins us remotely. 15:14
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green)
Green
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate and will reiterate points that have been expressed by colleagues. It comes as no surprise to us that the so...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
Can Gillian Mackay confirm the stance of her party on the continuance of the national care service bill? I read in the press that the Greens had reversed the...
Gillian Mackay
Green
I thank Mr Cole-Hamilton for his intervention. At my party’s conference earlier in the autumn, the party voted for a motion that removed support for the bil...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
I am grateful to Jackie Baillie for making time for the debate. She hit the right tone with her opening remarks and did well to remind members that, for this...
Neil Gray
SNP
It is not true to say that no one wants the bill. The letter from disabled people’s organisations was very clear, and I am sure that Mr Cole-Hamilton is rece...
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
When disabled people’s organisations learn that £30 million has already been wasted on this bureaucratic exercise—that is the equivalent of 1,200 care worker...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
You need to conclude.
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
We do not need the bill in order to introduce the key vital aspects that the Labour Party has identified in its motion. We can find other mechanisms to do so...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
We move to the open debate. I advise members that we have no time in hand. In fact, we are already behind schedule. I call Paul Sweeney, to be followed by C...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
It is a pleasure to support the motion. The cabinet secretary is right to highlight the fact that the national care service, or its concept, is essential fo...
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
Paul Sweeney has made a really good case about the SNP trying to dress up the NCS in the clothes of the much-loved national treasure that is the NHS. Does he...