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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 13 November 2024

13 Nov 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Business Motions
Kerr, Liam Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I rise to speak to the amendment in my name to the minister’s business motion for next week. The minister has lodged a motion that suggests that, next Wednesday, the Parliament will debate whether to treat the proposed prisoners (early release) (Scotland) bill as an emergency bill. In other words, the bill, which we have not seen yet—we will not see it until next Tuesday—will not be subject to the usual parliamentary scrutiny. Instead, if members agree, it will be rushed through with less than a week between stages 1 and 3. That will be a big call for MSPs, and I look forward to robust, well-informed and carefully considered debate. However, the minister’s motion goes on to list stage 1 of the bill for the following day—less than 24 hours after the vote on whether to give it emergency status.

I ask colleagues to think about what the minister is saying here. Next Wednesday, we will be asked whether we are prepared to commute a legislative process that was set out in the very founding principles of the Parliament to less than a week. There will be a debate for us to decide whether that is in the interests of the people of Scotland, the Parliament and, indeed, the prisoners and victims whom the bill will directly impact. The minister, however, is so confident that we will all ignore that debate and anything that anyone says in it—so certain is he that we will all dutifully press buttons in accordance with instructions, regardless of the debate—that he has peremptorily scheduled the stage 1 debate less than 24 hours later. The minister believes that, regardless of how significant the decision to treat the bill as an emergency bill is, we will all just do what we are told. How utterly disrespectful.

I will make arguments next Wednesday against treating the bill as emergency legislation. One of the arguments that I will deploy is that the more that we pass bills without scrutiny or challenge, and without the committee input that a unicameral Parliament must surely mandate in all but the most exceptional circumstances, the more that we risk legislation by fiat from a minority Government. I submit that that is exactly what the minister has inadvertently shown himself to be doing.

I believe in the Parliament and its role, so I propose an amendment to the business motion. Although I do not believe that the bill should be deemed emergency legislation, I respect the Government’s prerogative to call that debate and, as I respect my MSP colleagues, I do not presuppose its outcome. Instead, my amendment proposes that a stage 1 debate on the bill next week be replaced with a debate on Scotland’s prisoner population. Even if MSPs decided that the bill should be treated as an emergency bill, we would then have a debate on Thursday that would help to inform MSPs on that bill at a future stage 1.

The Parliament should always be genuinely consulted and never dictated to. The minister’s presupposing of how a debate will go next Wednesday is as disrespectful as it is arrogant. Those who respect the Parliament and the job that we, as MSPs, were sent here to do will vote for my amendment on principle and against the motion if my amendment falls. Those who feel differently will no doubt fall meekly into line and do what they are told.

I move amendment S6M-15423.2, to leave out “Stage 1 Debate: Prisoners (Early Release) (Scotland) Bill” and insert:

“Scottish Government Debate: Scotland’s Prisoner Population”.

17:14  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-15423, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a b...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Liam Kerr to speak to and move amendment S6M-15423.2. You have up to five minutes, Mr Kerr. 17:10
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I rise to speak to the amendment in my name to the minister’s business motion for next week. The minister has lodged a motion that suggests that, next Wednes...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The standing orders of the Scottish Parliament provide for emergency bills. They are very specific about the timetabling of an emergency bill, in that it sho...
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
The Scottish Government is committed to ensuring that our prisons function safely and effectively for all those who live and work in our prison estate. The S...
Liam Kerr Con
The minister appears to have completely missed the point. The representations from Martin Whitfield and me were about the setting of the business for next we...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
This is about scheduling to enable us to have that debate. The debate is what Liam Kerr wants not to happen. What I am doing—which was clearly not done by Mr...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Will the minister give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I will happily give way.
Martin Whitfield Lab
Does the minister also agree with the cabinet secretary that the emergency element related to short-term prisoners and, indeed, that the part that relates to...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
There will always have to be on-going consultation with stakeholders as to how we take forward the elements of bills that we seek to lay before Parliament. T...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Will the minister take an intervention?
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Yes, I will give way very briefly.
Maggie Chapman Green
Can the minister clarify and confirm that if we do not agree to the business motion this evening, we cannot proceed with the stage 1 debate next week? The mo...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I absolutely concur with that point. I make no assumptions about how people will vote, although it was interesting of Liam Kerr to suggest that he thinks tha...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I remind members that if the amendment in the name of Liam Kerr is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Martin Whitfield will fall. The question is, tha...
The Presiding Officer NPA
There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:14 Meeting suspended. 17:27 On resuming—
The Presiding Officer NPA
I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Liam Kerr is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Martin Whitfield will fall. We come to the vote ...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer, I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you, Mr Bibby. We will ensure that that is recorded. For Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Bibby, Neil (W...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The result of the division on amendment S6M-15423.2, in the name of Liam Kerr, is: For 48, Against 70, Abstentions 0. Amendment disagreed to.
The Presiding Officer NPA
The next question is, that amendment S6M-15423.1, in the name of Martin Whitfield, which seeks to amend motion S6M-15423, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on be...
The Presiding Officer NPA
There will be a division. For Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sara...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The result of the division on amendment S6M-15423.1, in the name of Martin Whitfield, is: For 51, Against 67, Abstentions 0. Amendment disagreed to.
The Presiding Officer NPA
The next question is, that motion S6M-15423, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme, be agreed...
The Presiding Officer NPA
There will be a division. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The result of the division on motion S6M-15423, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, is: For 68, Against 51, Abstentions 0. Motion agreed to, That the Parliament ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-15424, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on a stage 2 ti...