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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 November 2024

12 Nov 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Women’s Health Plan 2021 to 2024
Mackay, Gillian Green Central Scotland Watch on SPTV

This has been an interesting debate and I will reflect on some of the contributions. In her opening statement, the minister laid out how important it is to look after women’s health because, in doing so, we are looking after the nation’s health. It is important that we point to factors outwith the minister’s portfolio and the women’s health plan that have an effect on women’s health. The minister mentioned unpaid carers—that is the perfect example of how factors in many other portfolios can drive health inequalities, or otherwise. The rate of carers allowance, access to carer support plans and the ability to get respite to attend appointments all have an impact on carers’ health.

Another area that the minister mentioned is pregnancy and baby loss. Several friends have pointed out to me that they found it interesting that, during their pregnancies, almost every symptom that they asked healthcare providers about was described as normal, even when the symptoms were complete opposites—for example, having a higher-than-normal appetite and being concerned about that, or having no appetite at all when they believed that they should have. Both symptoms were totally normal, and I think that we need more information and clear explanations in those areas.

Many women have been told to just battle on with debilitating symptoms in pregnancy that we would not expect anyone else to battle on with, purely because there is a stigma around how early it is okay to tell people about a pregnancy. I know some friends who, after a loss, regretted not telling their family earlier. They had a bereavement without having had the celebration of their happy news. We need to assess whether some of those norms are making losses harder, and I commend Kenny Gibson for sharing his personal experience in that regard.

We need to ensure that employers are aware of all the ways in which they can support pregnant women and that women are supported to reveal their pregnancies whenever they are ready to do so, not when tradition dictates that it is okay, especially if they feel that they need support.

I am glad that the baby loss memorial book is open to those who have historically had a miscarriage. I am sure that many of us have had meetings with those who have historically lost a pregnancy and have heard them speak about the sense of validation of their experience.

Alex Cole-Hamilton, Clare Adamson and others have mentioned postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis, among other issues that are hugely important to address. The Health, Social Care and Sport Committee has undertaken work on perinatal mental health, and it would certainly be worth repeating such work in a future parliamentary session.

Emma Roddick mentioned chronic pain and how not being believed about a multitude of symptoms, but pain in particular, is devastating for many. Why the default is not just to believe that women are experiencing pain and then try to find out what is causing it to manifest, rather than not believing that the pain exists in the first place, boggles my mind.

Kenny Gibson kindly mentioned my chairing of the PBC event last week. Primary biliary cholangitis, which is not easy to say at this point on a Tuesday afternoon, is an autoimmune liver disease that predominantly affects women—women account for around 90 per cent of all cases. The symptoms of PBC, such as itch and fatigue, can have a profound impact on a person’s quality of life and mental wellbeing. Those affected often feel misunderstood and sometimes stigmatised, because, unlike many other liver conditions, PBC is not the result of alcohol or drug consumption. Instead, risk factors may be gender, older age, genetics and where a person lives.

In my opening speech, I spoke of my awe for those women, who shared raw experiences of how PBC has affected, and continues to affect, their lives—how it has affected their families, their experience of transplant and their own mortality. They spoke with passion about what they want to see and how they see their own care. I encourage others to engage with the groups that were represented at that event.

Kenny Gibson and others also mentioned cardiovascular health. We know that heart attacks often manifest with different symptoms in women. Many of us try to raise awareness of those symptoms, but their not being accurately defined in women is potentially a big problem. That is why I will not stop going on about data, and it is why I was really pleased to see a review of the data landscape published alongside the women’s health plan report. Some of the data that we need to see is not just more things that the Government should collate, but specific funded academic work that is done to ensure that we better understand many of the symptoms and causes.

Organisations have asked for other issues to be raised that I did not have time to address earlier, so I will try to race through them now. Breast Cancer Now has underscored the need for a stronger emphasis to be placed on a life-course approach when women interact with the healthcare system. More should be done to provide women with information on how to check their breasts, to remind them when they will be invited for breast screening and to provide them with the tools to make an informed choice to attend.

That organisation also points to the fact that the Scottish Government’s major review of breast screening in 2021 recommended that bringing high-risk screening within the remit of the national screening programme be considered. That project is outside the programme board’s scope and would require a specific business case and funding. Breast Cancer Now advocates for the next iteration of the women’s health plan for Scotland to provide an opportunity to fulfil the review’s recommendations and to conduct a larger piece of work to fully assess the potential advantages, feasibility, benefit and cost of integrating high-risk surveillance with the national screening programme.

Engender has highlighted the need for more details to be provided on how Covid-19 has impacted women’s health outcomes and affected the implementation of the women’s health plan, including whether it has limited the scale of change that has been delivered. Engender has also renewed its calls for future work on women’s health to focus on an intersectional approach that recognises and addresses the health experiences of minority and marginalised women.

I look forward to working with and learning from Professor Anna Glasier on the next iteration of the plan, as well as working with the minister and the rest of Government to achieve the aims that we all hold dear. I hope that we can continue in the largely constructive tone that we have had today.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15382, in the name of Jenni Minto, on progress and next steps on the women’s health plan 2021 to 2024. 1...
The Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health (Jenni Minto) SNP
I am extremely passionate about women’s health, so I warmly welcome this debate and the opportunity to bring this important topic back to the chamber. We kn...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
The minister met me and endometriosis campaigners last April. She looked at a policy paper from the Scottish Conservatives regarding ways to improve access t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I will give you the time back, minister.
Jenni Minto SNP
I thank Rachael Hamilton for her work, specifically in the Borders, on endometriosis diagnosis times. I recognise that diagnosis times for endometriosis are ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
It is clear to say that, when it comes to specialist neonatal services, the consultants, all the clinicians and the women who are involved are opposed to the...
Jenni Minto SNP
We have received advice from clinical experts in the field, and they, as well as the charity Bliss, which advocates for parents, all support the reduction in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I invite Annie Wells to speak to and move amendment S6M-15382.1. 15:09
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I begin by thanking the many organisations that have provided briefings for the debate. Health is one of the biggest issues in the minds of people across our...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Carol Mochan to speak to and move amendment S6M-15382.2. 15:17
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am so pleased that Government time has been given to debating women’s health today. We will support the Government’s motion tonight. If we have learned an...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Does Carol Mochan agree that there needs to be a separate road map for women and that the women’s health plan needs to be sex specific?
Carol Mochan Lab
Yes, of course. I return to my point about unhealthy life expectancy. Not only do our poorest neighbours die younger, they live life in a much poorer state ...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
The women’s health plan that was launched in 2021 marked a significant commitment to addressing the distinct health needs of women across Scotland and aimed ...
Tess White Con
I would like to ask you whether you—
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Through the chair, please, Ms White.
Tess White Con
Sorry. Does the member agree that we benefited from working collaboratively in the work that we did as a committee on the buffer zones?
Gillian Mackay Green
Absolutely. It very much helps us all if we work collaboratively in the sphere of women’s health. I hope that we will have a similar level of conversation in...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
It gives me pleasure to speak for the Liberal Democrats in what is a vital debate. I am grateful to Jenny Minto for securing Government time to bring the deb...
Tess White Con
Alex Cole-Hamilton referenced the US in relation to abortion, but will he also applaud the fact that, even though Donald Trump is a controversial figure, he ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I very much regret that Tess White wants to lower the tone of what has so far been a consensual debate. That problem stems from her, and I ask her to reflect...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I note that a member who was looking to participate in the debate has not been here throughout the opening speeches, for which I will need an explanation and...
Emma Roddick (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
I was glad to hear, in the minister’s opening speech, about the progress that has been made on endometriosis and, in particular, on managing the pain that co...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
As the first women’s health plan comes to an end, I welcome the opportunity to take stock. I thank Jenni Minto and her team for the cross-party working that ...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Over the years, I have raised concerns about a range of women’s health issues, from endometriosis and pre-eclampsia to cardiovascular conditions and breast c...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank the Government for bringing forward this debate on such an important issue. Although I welcome the fact that some progress has been made on the women...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to contribute to what has been an informative and excellent debate. I will begin by following on from Pam Duncan-Glancy’s thoughtful contributio...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
Like my colleagues, I am pleased that we are taking time to debate the subject of women’s health. It is an issue that regularly appears in my constituency po...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
We now move to closing speeches. I call Gillian Mackay to close on behalf of the Scottish Greens. 16:21
Gillian Mackay Green
This has been an interesting debate and I will reflect on some of the contributions. In her opening statement, the minister laid out how important it is to l...