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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 30 October 2024

30 Oct 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Schools (Funding)

The Scottish Government is working on a misunderstanding. The education secretary seems to think that local authorities, including SNP-run Glasgow City Council, are hellbent on destroying Scottish education. Why on earth does she think that? If the Westminster Government were treating the Scottish Government as she is treating local authorities, there would be an outcry.

Where is the Verity house agreement? Where is the historic concordat where local authorities are supposed to be working in partnership with central Government, when we are now regularly issuing threats because, somehow, local authorities cannot be trusted with our education system?

The cabinet secretary has really destroyed the relationship with local authorities and schools. The people who are paying the price are teachers, because there is complete incoherence in the Scottish Government’s position. There are promises about, and difficulties in, recruiting 3,500 extra teachers, partly to cut teacher contact time by 90 minutes and—it has been in the commentary—about making sure that there are more permanent places and cutting temporary contracts. However, none of that has been done.

I understand the cabinet secretary’s problem, but to think that local authorities are the problem in the relationship, rather than the funding that she is providing to local authorities, is a complete misunderstanding of the issue. Ross Greer is bang on about that point; he highlighted the fact that the money does not have the same value as it used to have. Inflation and pay deals have gone through the roof, which has affected the money in a way that John Swinney said in May was an issue. Indeed, he said that we

“live in the real world”.—[Official Report, 9 May 2024; c 13.]

The education secretary is not living in the real world, and she is expecting local authorities to live not in the real world but in her world, where she is able to regularly issue threats about funding. Her position is illogical.

There is also a problem with what is happening to the pipeline of teachers. We know that there has not been the recruitment of an extra 3,500 teachers, yet the pipeline continues from initial teacher education. Teachers are coming into the primary education world in particular thinking that there will be a job for them, but the Scottish Government has not provided the funding that is necessary for them to be employed.

The education secretary is not living in the real world, but these teachers are expected to live in the real world without a job or an opportunity or without a permanent contract for years on end. I think that the education secretary knows that I am right about this; she knows that she has an incoherent position, where she is expecting local authorities to live within an incredibly tight financial budget but deliver the promises that were made in her party’s manifesto back in 2021. She is incoherent and she needs to sort this out—otherwise schools, teachers and local authorities will continue to suffer.

16:15  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15060, in the name of Miles Briggs, on funding for teachers and schools in Scotland. I invite members who...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
Deputy Presiding Officer, from what you have just said, I think that you would make a good headteacher. I thank my Scottish Conservative colleagues, Liam Ke...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Mr Briggs. That was exemplary time keeping to kick us off. 15:57
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I take this opportunity to welcome Miles Briggs to his new position in education. I know that he cares passionately about improving outcomes for Scotland’s c...
Miles Briggs Con
Dr Sue Ellis, a former professor of education at the University of Strathclyde, has stated that councils are “stuck between a rock and a hard place”, and I...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I would not agree. A number of local authorities have managed to maintain teacher numbers, and I would like to give them the funding right now. I would like ...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I have no time in hand, unfortunately. As education secretary, I will fervently defend that policy. I am absolutely clear that it will be much more difficul...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open the debate for Scottish Labour and to welcome Miles Briggs to his new role. Teachers are the beating heart of our education system. They...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Do I have any time in hand, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Not very much.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I will take a brief intervention.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Does the member at least acknowledge that, in the past year alone, the number of additional learning support assistants has increased by 725, specifically be...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
As the cabinet secretary knows, the situation for pupils with additional support needs in Scotland is, as the Education, Children and Young People Committee ...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I was proud of the £145 million that was included in the budget when the Greens joined the Government in 2021. It was the most significant request that we ma...
Stephen Kerr Con
Will the member give way?
Ross Greer Green
No, I am afraid not; I do not have time. We need to rethink that approach; £145 million of public money was spent with the intention of resulting in more te...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I do not know what kind of crazy logic leads to the conclusion that cutting £145.5 million from local authority budgets will protect teacher numbers. Local a...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I find it hard to follow Mr Rennie’s logic. As we have heard today, we have had two years of consecutive reductions in teacher numbers, but the Government ha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Briefly, cabinet secretary—
Jenny Gilruth SNP
That is exactly what I have been doing since February to get funding out the door. Local authorities will not agree to it. Some of them want the funding, and...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Briefly—
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Is that a position that Mr Rennie supports?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you some of the time back, Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD
The Scottish Government is working on a misunderstanding. The education secretary seems to think that local authorities, including SNP-run Glasgow City Counc...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
The whole problem with the £145 million is that there is, frankly, no specific agreement about how that money will be spent. I have asked that question a hun...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Look in the mirror!
Stephen Kerr Con
You can hold up a mirror, if you like.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude, Mr Kerr.