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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 06 November 2024

06 Nov 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Keeping the Promise

Of course, we in the Liberal Democrats recommit ourselves to the Promise, which is why we will support the Government’s motion this afternoon. However, we will also support the two amendments. We are particularly drawn to Roz McCall’s amendment, which details some of the challenges that we face.

There is no doubt that progress has been made. Who Cares? Scotland tells us that the situation is “encouraging”, particularly with regard to

“the rights of brothers and sisters, work to re-shape the youth justice system and ... challenging stigma.”

However, there is a disconnect. When I, along with others, met care-experienced young people earlier this year, they were seething at the slow pace of change—indeed, I was quite taken aback at the degree of frustration that they felt. They left me in no doubt that they were losing faith in the Promise.

It is the responsibility of those of us in this Parliament to raise the issues that are being raised today. Doing so is not an attack on the Promise or the system; it is about providing robust scrutiny and challenge to make the change, so that those young people do not still feel frustrated the next time that we meet them.

Children First says:

“we are still a long way from Keeping the Promise.”

In fact, it believes that the wider problems have become so severe that it has declared a childhood emergency. Last year, the Promise oversight board said that it did

“not believe that delivering the original aims of Plan 21-24 is realistic”

by the end of the plan period. Kezia Dugdale, a former member of the Scottish Parliament and a member of the board, said, in a personal capacity:

“the experience of too many children and families is of a fractured, bureaucratic, unfeeling care system that operates only in a crisis.”

That is certainly my anecdotal experience from my casework in my constituency. We see evidence of constantly changing social workers and a system that does not respond to pleas for help and responds only in a crisis. That pattern is repeated on numerous occasions.

Who Cares? Scotland, which brought those care-experienced people to the Parliament, has produced an excellent and grounded piece of evidence on the lack of progress on “Plan 21-24”. As we have heard already, there should be a presumption of brothers and sisters staying together, but the report showed that one in four siblings are still separated. That is an improvement on the three out of four who were separated at the start of this process in 2017, but seven councils did not know how many were separated. How could they not know? We are talking about one of their main responsibilities, and they admitted that they did not know.

The Promise made a commitment to end school exclusions for care-experienced children. However, 23 local authorities said that they continued to formally and informally exclude care-experienced pupils. One has ended the practice, and three will do so soon, but five did not even answer the question, which was asked by the main organisation that lobbies on behalf of care-experienced young people.

Restraint is supposed to end, but there is concern from Who Cares? Scotland that there is an attempt to redefine restraint as “safe holding”. Daniel Johnson’s proposed bill on restraint could clarify that area. In fact, clarification is important, especially as, alarmingly, three councils did not know how many incidents of restraint there had been and nine did not even respond. There was also a lack of knowledge of practice in non-council facilities.

Out of the 29 local authorities that responded to Who Cares? Scotland, 13 said that they did not currently provide independent advocacy services for care-experienced people at all stages of their lives, services that they are supposed to provide. Moreover, on kinship and foster carers and their being paid at the same rate, 10 councils confirmed that they paid the same, while two responded that they did not.

From the 28 local authorities that responded, 75 to 108 children and young people have experienced a breakdown of their adoption since the publication of “The Promise”. However, two councils did not even record that those breakdowns were happening. How can we understand how the system works if we do not record the data necessary to scrutinise it?

Trauma-informed training is very important; nine councils provide it, but 11 councils do not know whether they do. There is a commitment to valuing staff, but, as we heard from Roz McCall, absence rates in one particular council were going up at a shocking rate—from 65 to 78 to 83 per cent. That was just one council, but I know from my local authority in Fife that there are significant problems, and it is a sure sign of a system under considerable strain. Throughout the committee’s scrutiny of the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill, we found that that was certainly the case. I also note that, of the 32 local authorities, 10 did not provide any trauma-informed training to corporate parents, pupils or families.

A thematic review from the Care Inspectorate published yesterday found that, although

“the rights of care experienced young people are being upheld as they move on from being in care ... The experience of moving on from care, envisaged by the Scottish Care Leavers Covenant ... has yet to be achieved for all young people. Variable approaches to keeping in touch also means that not all ... have equity of access to all the necessary information during the stages of transition.”

The Care Inspectorate also found that

“Access to suitable housing was the most significant challenge”.

Indeed, we know that those who have had care experience have a particular problem with accessing housing.

Children First says:

“too many are ... struggling to find help when they need it.”

The whole family wellbeing fund was slow to get off the ground and be spent. We need it to be more transparent, and we need to get it out the door, so that we can invest in families and make sure that they stay together.

There is much more that I could say, but I hope that the minister understands that scrutiny is essential if we are to deliver the Promise by the end of the period.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15205, in the name of Natalie Don-Innes, on keeping the Promise. I invite members who wish to participate...
The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer, for the opportunity to bring the debate to the chamber. As minister for the Promise, I have seen progress, listened to heart-wa...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The definition of “care experience” is becoming one of the most important elements, and it is right that that definition is developed with people with care e...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
We are consulting on that matter, which will be considered in anticipation of the bill. In August 2023, I was very proud to introduce the Scottish recommend...
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank the minister for bringing this important debate to the chamber. I welcome the opportunity to reaffirm the commitment of Scottish Conservative members...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am a proud member of the Children’s Parliament “unfearties”; I stand with children to make rights real in day-to-day life. Today, as part of that journey, ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you very much indeed, Mr Whitfield. I call Gillian Mackay, who joins us remotely. 15:19
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
I, too, thank the minister for holding this hugely important debate. Like others, I reaffirm the Scottish Greens’ commitment to achieving the Promise. I d...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Of course, we in the Liberal Democrats recommit ourselves to the Promise, which is why we will support the Government’s motion this afternoon. However, we wi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 15:32
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak in the debate. Hard as it may be for folks in the chamber to recognise, I was first elected to Aberdeen City Council in May 1999—some 2...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
On reflection, I wonder whether I have been in the Parliament for too long, because I find debates such as this one quite hard. I do not want to sour the ton...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
I do not think that anybody is arguing that we have kept the Promise; we are on a journey to keep the Promise by 2030. I welcome hearing about the challenges...
Oliver Mundell Con
If the minister was listening, she would have heard that I did say that there are some things that we can be pleased with. However, although I do not want to...
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
It is easy to forget what a powerful statement it was when the Promise was launched and voices across the Parliament and our public services used the word “l...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the news that the much-needed Promise bill will be introduced during this session of Parliament. That will be a relief to care-experienced campaign...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Children and young people across Scotland deserve the very best that there is to offer in all aspects of their lives. It is our job as members of Parliament ...
Foysol Choudhury (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Four years have passed since the introduction of the Promise. Although I was not a member of the Scottish Parliament then, I was pleased to see parties unite...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) SNP
Few, if any, issues matter more to me than this one. I know that that is true for the minister, too, and I commend her for her leadership on this mission. T...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
We move to the closing speeches. I call Gillian Mackay to close on behalf of the Scottish Greens. Ms Mackay joins us remotely. 16:16
Gillian Mackay Green
It has been a good debate—it has been a challenging debate for us all, but it has certainly been a good one. I absolutely agree with the minister that we ne...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to close today’s debate on the Promise on behalf of the Scottish Labour Party. We have heard from colleagues today, including the minister, Rona...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Ms Duncan-Glancy. Miles Briggs will close on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. 16:28
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank the organisations that have provided helpful briefings for us ahead of the debate and I welcome to the public gallery representatives from them. As t...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
I thank all members for their considered contributions throughout the debate. I am encouraged to hear that cross-party support to keep the Promise remains st...
Kevin Stewart SNP
How are we going to spread good practice across Scotland? Quite often, we hear about amazing things going on in one place but find that, in the next-door loc...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
“Plan 24-30” is a good example of how that can be done. The more that develops and the more good practice is shared in that regard, the more we will be able ...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
That concludes the debate on keeping the Promise.