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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 September 2024

10 Sep 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Macpherson, Ben SNP Edinburgh Northern and Leith Watch on SPTV

As a new member of the Criminal Justice Committee and as a constituency MSP, I am pleased to speak in today’s important debate on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1.

As members across the chamber have remarked in the debate, we are served very well across Scotland by the exceptional dedication and commitment of Scotland’s police officers and all the diverse work that they do to keep communities safe. In Edinburgh Northern and Leith, I am grateful for the weekly collaboration that I engage in with people from Police Scotland to serve constituents on a range of matters. Their professionalism is exceptional.

However, no organisation is perfect—we all know that—so, if things go wrong, the police must be held to account, and improvements must be made and lessons learned. Justice in relation to internal complaints must be thorough and robust, and sanction must be used where it is appropriate and right. Some of the hardest cases that I have dealt with as a constituency MSP in terms of complexity and sensitivity are those regarding complaints about the criminal justice system, and I am sure that that is also the experience of colleagues.

As a country that polices by consent, a principle that, as others have said, is central to our justice system, we must have appropriate and strong accountability. New laws, such as the one that we are considering today, must be brought through in due course, through modernisation and to future proof public confidence in standards of police conduct.

The vital safeguards that are set out in the bill will enhance the professional service that is already delivered by officers as they perform their privileged duties to keep us all safe. I will say more about that in a minute but, before I get into the bill’s key proposals, I will touch a bit more on the point about policing as an essential service and a privileged duty. Although I do not want to discuss too much the jurisprudence of the legislation, I note that fair and accountable enforcement is key to the rule of law. If the state is to have a monopoly of violence, and if that is to be for just and benevolent ends, at least in the modern period—as Maggie Chapman highlighted, it was not necessarily the case historically—we must rely on a strong police service to enforce the rule of law and uphold democracy, and that enforcement must be fair and accountable. The bill will enhance that.

The bill will put the pre-existing code of ethics that is currently embedded throughout policing on a statutory footing in a way that will ensure that there is a thorough review process and accountability for its widespread publication. The bill will make the code of ethics legally binding, and I welcome that.

With regard to complaints against the police, the bill, as other members have touched on, aims to simplify the process—I welcome that, as will my constituents—in order to ensure that there are robust mechanisms in place to investigate complaints in a timeous way, and to investigate allegations of misconduct and other issues of concern in relation to the conduct of police officers in Scotland.

The bill also provides greater powers for the PIRC and places on Police Scotland and the Scottish Police Authority requirements to respond to the PIRC’s recommendations and to provide the commissioner with direct access to relevant information, including on the commencement and conclusion of gross misconduct proceedings, regardless of whether the person leaves the police or continues in the service.

I think that those powers will be warmly welcomed, but I ask the Government to comment on one point in summing up, although this may be for stage 2 or 3. What initiatives will the Government undertake to continue to raise awareness among members of the public of how to lodge a complaint in an appropriate manner if they have concerns about the service that they have received?

Other measures in the bill that are to be welcomed include the introduction of the Scottish advisory and barred lists, and the setting out of a duty of candour to ensure that the police co-operate fully during investigations of allegations against constables.

There is more in the bill, and I look forward to the stage 2 debate. I conclude by quoting an important statement from Lady Angiolini with regard to formalising the delivery of the majority of the recommendations that her review made in 2018. In evidence to the committee, she said:

“I do not think that having a voluntary version is good enough for an organisation that has so much power. It is really important that there is a structure to that.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 16 May 2024; c 8.]

For those who may question the necessity of this legislation in ensuring that we formalise the recommendations in Lady Angiolini’s review, I think that that statement is worth remembering.

16:04  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-14398, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill at s...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
I am pleased to open the debate on the general principles of the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Criminal Justice Committe...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
My understanding of the duty of candour is that the individual duty currently applies to the office of constable and the organisational duty will apply to th...
Angela Constance SNP
Very clear responsibilities are laid on the chief constable via the 2020 legislation in that the primary focus for holding the chief constable to account is ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Audrey Nicoll to speak on behalf of the Criminal Justice Committee. 14:43
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Criminal Justice Committee. As ever, the committee is very grateful to our clerking team, the Scottish Parliament info...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, thank the committee clerks for the incredible work that they do on our behalf. Scotland’s police officers are true heroes. They serve the public wit...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Scottish Labour welcomes the opportunity to discuss the main provisions in the bill and how we can ensure the highest standards of conduct in the police serv...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
On behalf of the Scottish Greens, I welcome the bill and the reforms that it contains. Those reforms, as we have already heard, represent a further step in t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
We move to the open debate, with back-bench speeches of around six minutes. I advise members that we have some time in hand, so if members wish to seek to ma...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Criminal Justice Committee, I welcome the chance to speak in today’s important debate. The bill has been drafted using the recommendations...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
The words “ethics, conduct and scrutiny” are in the title of the bill, and there are few places in public life where those words are as important as they are...
Angela Constance SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jamie Greene Con
Yes, I will in a minute, but I want to make some progress first, because I want to make a wider point. It is very difficult to legislate in such areas becau...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
Following on from what Jamie Greene said, I say that I think that all of us in Parliament can be proud that we live in a country that abides by the principle...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I start by thanking the Criminal Justice Committee for its work on the bill and for the thorough report that it has produced. Although the committee has back...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
I call Jackie Dunbar, to be followed by Alexander Stewart. You have a generous six minutes, Ms Dunbar. 15:45
Jackie Dunbar (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
As a substitute member of the Criminal Justice Committee, I am pleased to take part in the debate. As the bill that is before us is about policing, I have be...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this stage 1 debate on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill. Scotland’s brave police offi...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
As a new member of the Criminal Justice Committee and as a constituency MSP, I am pleased to speak in today’s important debate on the Police (Ethics, Conduct...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to follow Ben Macpherson, and I echo his comments about the move from a voluntary code to a statutory code. I will use the relatively short...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Before I call the final speaker in the open debate, I give a reminder that all members who have participated in the debate should be in the chamber for the c...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I, too, congratulate the Criminal Justice Committee on its report. At this stage of the debate, much has been said, so I apologise in advance for revisiting ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the closing speeches. 16:15
Maggie Chapman Green
I thank colleagues for their contributions to the debate. As someone who does not sit on the Criminal Justice Committee but follows its work from the outside...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As has been said, the bill comes before us as a result of the Angiolini review. The Criminal Justice Committee heard evidence from a number of witnesses who ...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con
As a member of the Criminal Justice Committee, which is considering the bill, I have been involved in scrutinising it for some time. I take the opportunity t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Ms Dowey. I call Angela Constance. Cabinet secretary, you have a very generous 10 minutes. 16:36
Angela Constance SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. It is very unusual for you to say that to me. All that I can say in return is, “Be careful what you wish for.” I start by than...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for clarifying that. As we will head into stage 2 shortly after stage 1, I ask her whether she will take cognisance of somethin...