Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 31 October 2024
31 Oct 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape
On behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, I welcome the Finance and Public Administration Committee’s report and offer my thanks to the committee for carrying out a robust inquiry into an important and evolving area. For transparency, I mention that I am now a member of that committee, but as I have attended only one meeting, it is too early to say that I have gone rogue or native.
The reason for my party welcoming the report is that it relates to two important considerations: value for money for the taxpayer and the effectiveness of public bodies. Perhaps the Parliament does not look enough at both those issues. As the committee notes, it is time to examine both, given the rapidly shifting sands in relation to the public purse and the shape and scale of the wide range of Scottish public bodies, including the supported bodies that we are looking at today.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15086, in the name of Kenneth Gibson, on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee, on Sc...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
In the absence of the convener, and as deputy convener, I am opening today’s debate on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee on our “Repo...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Does that mean that the member believes that the commissioner in the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill should be taken out and that we s...
Michael Marra
Lab
That is not a position that the committee has taken, and it is not contained in the recommendations of the report. The recommendations of the report, which I...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Does the member acknowledge that a range of different commissioners are being proposed? If he looked at the proposals for a future generations commissioner a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I ask members who are making an intervention to press their intervention buttons. I can give you the time back for those interventions, Mr Marra.
Michael Marra
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. The committee would certainly recognise that a wide range of different commissioners with different purposes is being proposed...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I call Ivan McKee to speak to and move amendment S6M-15086.3. 14:59
The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)
SNP
I thank the Finance and Public Administration Committee for bringing this important issue to the chamber and for its excellent report on the commissioner lan...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
In relation to bills that propose a future commissioner, the Scottish Government’s amendment uses the phrase “been introduced”. Is the Government’s definitio...
Ivan McKee
SNP
I will come on to talk about that point, but we have identified that it is for Parliament and its committees to take a view, in the context of the discussion...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP)
SNP
The minister will note that the committee recommended that the ministerial control framework should be published. Is the Government willing to do that?
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I can give you the time back, minister.
Ivan McKee
SNP
We have already sent the ministerial control framework to the committee, so it should be in receipt of it. It is worth emphasising the point about the wider...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I call Maggie Chapman to speak on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. 15:08
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green)
Green
I speak in the debate as a member of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. I begin by thanking the Finance and Public Administration Committee for und...
Martin Whitfield
Lab
I am grateful to Maggie Chapman for taking an intervention. Can she confirm whether the SPCB has always been comfortable with some of the challenges, particu...
Maggie Chapman
Green
I thank Martin Whitfield for that intervention. I do not know whether he is referring to operational challenges, but those are not within our remit. Our remi...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
On behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, I welcome the Finance and Public Administration Committee’s report and offer my thanks to the committee for carrying...
Michelle Thomson
SNP
Does Mr Hoy agree that the addition of scrutiny of public administration to the finance brief for the first time in this place has been very worth while and ...
Craig Hoy
Con
Absolutely. One of the things that Government does not do often enough is look at Government itself. Organisations in the corporate environment do that each ...
Martin Whitfield
Lab
Is it Craig Hoy’s understanding that “introduced” means the same as it does in standing orders? In other words, bills that the Government has introduced to P...
Craig Hoy
Con
I heard what the minister said about that and Liz Smith will address that point on behalf of my party. Regardless of the interpretation of either the amendm...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Ind
Will the member accept an intervention?
Craig Hoy
Con
I do not have time, unless I can get some time back.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
You can get the time back, Mr Hoy.
John Mason
Ind
Does the member agree that there could also be an issue with groups that are already stronger in society demanding a commissioner, whereas weaker groups with...
Craig Hoy
Con
The member takes me to my next point, which is that there are already strong channels through which organisations can communicate with the Scottish Parliamen...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Craig Hoy has made the point that all those third sector organisations and charities have an appropriate forum in which to raise their concerns. If that is t...
Craig Hoy
Con
There is a difference between giving somebody a voice and the person who is listening to that voice responding to it. When I was shadow minister for social ...