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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 31 October 2024

31 Oct 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape
Chapman, Maggie Green North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I speak in the debate as a member of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body.

I begin by thanking the Finance and Public Administration Committee for undertaking its inquiry. I am grateful to have the opportunity to add the SPCB’s views to the debate and to give some background on the situation.

Colleagues will, I am sure, be aware that the role of the SPCB, as set out in the Scotland Act 1998, is to

“provide the Parliament, or ensure the Parliament is provided, with the property, staff and services required”

for its purposes.

In addition to those duties, the SPCB also has a statutory duty to support independent office-holders, including ensuring that they have appropriate governance structures, as well as providing their budgetary requirements.

In 2003, there were two office-holders—the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman and the Scottish Information Commissioner—and their running costs for 2003-04 amounted to £1.3 million. The SPCB now supports seven office-holders, it will shortly support an eighth office-holder, and it funds the devolved Scottish functions of the Electoral Commission. For 2024-25, the office-holders’ budgets, which form part of the SPCB’s overall budget, amount to £18.2 million, which is quite a significant increase.

Supporting office-holders has become very time consuming for the SPCB. In addition to providing and agreeing annual funding for the office-holders, the corporate body sets their terms and conditions of appointment, undertakes open recruitment exercises for a number of the office-holders, appoints acting office-holders and accountable officers, approves determinations for staff, advisers and so on, and comments on draft strategic plans.

To ensure that we undertake our role properly, we have put in place a number of governance arrangements. Those include putting in place an annual evaluation process that involves an independent assessor assessing the office-holders and preparing a report for us; issuing a suite of strategic engagement documents that support the efficient administration of the relationship between the office-holders and the corporate body; putting in place a written agreement with the Conveners Group that sets out our respective roles; and establishing a shared services agenda.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15086, in the name of Kenneth Gibson, on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee, on Sc...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
In the absence of the convener, and as deputy convener, I am opening today’s debate on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee on our “Repo...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Does that mean that the member believes that the commissioner in the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill should be taken out and that we s...
Michael Marra Lab
That is not a position that the committee has taken, and it is not contained in the recommendations of the report. The recommendations of the report, which I...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Does the member acknowledge that a range of different commissioners are being proposed? If he looked at the proposals for a future generations commissioner a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I ask members who are making an intervention to press their intervention buttons. I can give you the time back for those interventions, Mr Marra.
Michael Marra Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. The committee would certainly recognise that a wide range of different commissioners with different purposes is being proposed...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Ivan McKee to speak to and move amendment S6M-15086.3. 14:59
The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee) SNP
I thank the Finance and Public Administration Committee for bringing this important issue to the chamber and for its excellent report on the commissioner lan...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
In relation to bills that propose a future commissioner, the Scottish Government’s amendment uses the phrase “been introduced”. Is the Government’s definitio...
Ivan McKee SNP
I will come on to talk about that point, but we have identified that it is for Parliament and its committees to take a view, in the context of the discussion...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
The minister will note that the committee recommended that the ministerial control framework should be published. Is the Government willing to do that?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back, minister.
Ivan McKee SNP
We have already sent the ministerial control framework to the committee, so it should be in receipt of it. It is worth emphasising the point about the wider...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Maggie Chapman to speak on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. 15:08
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I speak in the debate as a member of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. I begin by thanking the Finance and Public Administration Committee for und...
Martin Whitfield Lab
I am grateful to Maggie Chapman for taking an intervention. Can she confirm whether the SPCB has always been comfortable with some of the challenges, particu...
Maggie Chapman Green
I thank Martin Whitfield for that intervention. I do not know whether he is referring to operational challenges, but those are not within our remit. Our remi...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
On behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, I welcome the Finance and Public Administration Committee’s report and offer my thanks to the committee for carrying...
Michelle Thomson SNP
Does Mr Hoy agree that the addition of scrutiny of public administration to the finance brief for the first time in this place has been very worth while and ...
Craig Hoy Con
Absolutely. One of the things that Government does not do often enough is look at Government itself. Organisations in the corporate environment do that each ...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Is it Craig Hoy’s understanding that “introduced” means the same as it does in standing orders? In other words, bills that the Government has introduced to P...
Craig Hoy Con
I heard what the minister said about that and Liz Smith will address that point on behalf of my party. Regardless of the interpretation of either the amendm...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
Will the member accept an intervention?
Craig Hoy Con
I do not have time, unless I can get some time back.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
You can get the time back, Mr Hoy.
John Mason Ind
Does the member agree that there could also be an issue with groups that are already stronger in society demanding a commissioner, whereas weaker groups with...
Craig Hoy Con
The member takes me to my next point, which is that there are already strong channels through which organisations can communicate with the Scottish Parliamen...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Craig Hoy has made the point that all those third sector organisations and charities have an appropriate forum in which to raise their concerns. If that is t...
Craig Hoy Con
There is a difference between giving somebody a voice and the person who is listening to that voice responding to it. When I was shadow minister for social ...