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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 31 October 2024

31 Oct 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

I thank the Finance and Public Administration Committee for bringing this important issue to the chamber and for its excellent report on the commissioner landscape. I was delighted to take part in evidence sessions in front of the committee on the matter. It is important to recognise that the committee’s work on this issue is a key part of the wider public service reform agenda that I lead for the Government. I will talk more about that as I go through my remarks.

The Scottish Government very much welcomes the committee’s report and I am interested to hear views from across the chamber on its contents. I have responded to the report on behalf of the Government. However, I will set out the Government’s position on the key recommendations in the report and our approach to wider public sector reform.

The committee recommends

“a ‘root and branch’ review of the ... commissioner landscape”

and

“a moratorium on creating any new SPCB supported bodies, or expanding the remit of existing bodies”.

It plans to complete its work by June of next year.

The Scottish Government agrees that any new public body—whether that is a commissioner or a public body across the wider landscape—should be created only as a last resort, and we have introduced the ministerial control framework to robustly assess any Government proposals for a new public body. I will say more on that point later.

We therefore support the intention of the report and a drive to improve governance, accountability and efficiency across the parliamentary commissioner landscape, and we will engage in any review of the framework for commissioners and provide any information requested if that is the direction that Parliament agrees to.

I note that decisions on the establishment of any new SPCB-supported bodies are ultimately a matter for Parliament. The status and role of certain office-holders, such as regulatory or quasi-judicial bodies, make it inappropriate for Scottish ministers to have any involvement in their appointment or any arrangements for holding their offices to account.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15086, in the name of Kenneth Gibson, on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee, on Sc...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
In the absence of the convener, and as deputy convener, I am opening today’s debate on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee on our “Repo...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Does that mean that the member believes that the commissioner in the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill should be taken out and that we s...
Michael Marra Lab
That is not a position that the committee has taken, and it is not contained in the recommendations of the report. The recommendations of the report, which I...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Does the member acknowledge that a range of different commissioners are being proposed? If he looked at the proposals for a future generations commissioner a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I ask members who are making an intervention to press their intervention buttons. I can give you the time back for those interventions, Mr Marra.
Michael Marra Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. The committee would certainly recognise that a wide range of different commissioners with different purposes is being proposed...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Ivan McKee to speak to and move amendment S6M-15086.3. 14:59
The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee) SNP
I thank the Finance and Public Administration Committee for bringing this important issue to the chamber and for its excellent report on the commissioner lan...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
In relation to bills that propose a future commissioner, the Scottish Government’s amendment uses the phrase “been introduced”. Is the Government’s definitio...
Ivan McKee SNP
I will come on to talk about that point, but we have identified that it is for Parliament and its committees to take a view, in the context of the discussion...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
The minister will note that the committee recommended that the ministerial control framework should be published. Is the Government willing to do that?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back, minister.
Ivan McKee SNP
We have already sent the ministerial control framework to the committee, so it should be in receipt of it. It is worth emphasising the point about the wider...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Maggie Chapman to speak on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. 15:08
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I speak in the debate as a member of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. I begin by thanking the Finance and Public Administration Committee for und...
Martin Whitfield Lab
I am grateful to Maggie Chapman for taking an intervention. Can she confirm whether the SPCB has always been comfortable with some of the challenges, particu...
Maggie Chapman Green
I thank Martin Whitfield for that intervention. I do not know whether he is referring to operational challenges, but those are not within our remit. Our remi...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
On behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, I welcome the Finance and Public Administration Committee’s report and offer my thanks to the committee for carrying...
Michelle Thomson SNP
Does Mr Hoy agree that the addition of scrutiny of public administration to the finance brief for the first time in this place has been very worth while and ...
Craig Hoy Con
Absolutely. One of the things that Government does not do often enough is look at Government itself. Organisations in the corporate environment do that each ...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Is it Craig Hoy’s understanding that “introduced” means the same as it does in standing orders? In other words, bills that the Government has introduced to P...
Craig Hoy Con
I heard what the minister said about that and Liz Smith will address that point on behalf of my party. Regardless of the interpretation of either the amendm...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
Will the member accept an intervention?
Craig Hoy Con
I do not have time, unless I can get some time back.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
You can get the time back, Mr Hoy.
John Mason Ind
Does the member agree that there could also be an issue with groups that are already stronger in society demanding a commissioner, whereas weaker groups with...
Craig Hoy Con
The member takes me to my next point, which is that there are already strong channels through which organisations can communicate with the Scottish Parliamen...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Craig Hoy has made the point that all those third sector organisations and charities have an appropriate forum in which to raise their concerns. If that is t...
Craig Hoy Con
There is a difference between giving somebody a voice and the person who is listening to that voice responding to it. When I was shadow minister for social ...