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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 30 October 2024

30 Oct 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Parliamentary Bureau Motions
Fairlie, Jim SNP Perthshire South and Kinross-shire Watch on SPTV

I feel that I must express my extreme disappointment and—dare I say it?—my surprise at the short-sightedness of the decision of members of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee, who voted yesterday to move to annul the vital regulations before us, which represent one of the very final pieces of the jigsaw that will allow us to undo some of the damage done to one of our vital public services by Thatcherism’s obsession with selling off the nation’s assets—in this case, the maligned deregulation of bus services.

The Transport (Scotland) Act 2019, which was passed by this Parliament, set us on a journey of giving control back to local authorities in a number of ways to ensure that the people of Scotland have an affordable, reliable bus service that works for the people who rely on it most, rather than providing dividend payments for shareholders.

Franchising is one of the most important and—dare I say it?—ambitious measures, and supporting the motion to annul the regulations puts the brakes on years of work and progress towards delivering that vision and turning it into a reality for the people of Scotland. It may well jeopardise the ability to deliver franchising progress in this session of Parliament.

If we break down what is, in reality, a fairly complex process for the sake of simplicity, we find that the regulations allow for the creation of a panel that will scrutinise the proposals of an authority to develop a franchise, ensure the robustness of the business case and satisfy itself that the authority has done proper due diligence and has consulted the appropriate people, organisations and neighbouring authorities, so that all considerations are made and required actions completed.

It cannot be the case that such a major financial and socially important decision should be taken without full and robust scrutiny. The very presence of a panel to carry out that role will be the insurance policy that we need, so that authorities will adopt the level of rigour that is required to get the process right, and right first time.

The Labour Party’s position—that panels do not work because of the experience in England—simply does not stack up, because highlighting the single panel decision on which it based its comparison is like comparing apples with oranges. That panel only considered the financial business case, which was not robust.

There are many other arguments that could be made but, with an eye on the time, I will confirm what I told the committee yesterday. I instructed the chief executive officer of Transport Scotland to talk to the CEO of SPT, which is the only authority that is currently considering franchising as an option. Some would say that it is a trailblazer for future possibilities; its response was emphatic. SPT is currently developing a new regional bus strategy. Although the strategy is yet to be finalised, in its discussion, SPT noted the importance of checks and balances in the franchising process. Given that it is among the options under consideration, SPT felt that, should the regulations be annulled, it would not be suitable to leave the primary legislation in its current form, with no supporting regulations. [Interruption.] It highlighted the need for a quick resolution to the current position, noting that any legislative changes should be delivered timeously, and it has intimated a desire to work collaboratively with Transport Scotland and other partners to identify a workable solution. [Interruption.]

I do not know whether you can hear me, Presiding Officer, because of all this noise.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S6M-15078, on consideration of a Scottish statutory instrument. I call Alexander Bu...
Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I lodged a motion to annul the instrument so that, at yesterday’s meeting of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee, we would have the option to annul ...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Douglas Lumsden Con
I will take an intervention.
Graham Simpson Con
When the minister speaks, he might claim that voting to annul the instrument will bring work on franchising to a halt or will take us back to square 1. That ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Mr Lumsden, I can give you back some of the time for that intervention.
Douglas Lumsden Con
It is good that Graham Simpson spoke to SPT today, to hear from it exactly what the implications of annulling the SSI would be. If the panel appointment stag...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
At its meeting yesterday, the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee agreed to a motion to annul the SSI that we are debating today. Scottish Labour suppor...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the member give way on that point?
Alex Rowley Lab
I am sorry, but I do not have time. I also believe that that view is in keeping with the spirit of the powers that were created through the Transport (Scotl...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
It is clear that our communities have suffered from years of bus services being run for private profit rather than in the public interest, so change is despe...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
The Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee, which I sit on, was of one voice yesterday in saying that we all support franchising. Much has been said about ...
Douglas Lumsden Con
Will Bob Doris take an intervention?
Bob Doris SNP
I do not think that I have time. I apologise to Mr Lumsden for that. That said, any party—Government or Opposition—could consider an alternative to the regu...
The Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity (Jim Fairlie) SNP
I feel that I must express my extreme disappointment and—dare I say it?—my surprise at the short-sightedness of the decision of members of the Net Zero, Ener...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Minister, resume your seat. I remind members that they are perfectly entitled to ask for an intervention, but it is at the discretion of the person who has t...
Jim Fairlie SNP
In the interests of time, I will continue, because there are a lot of points to get through. As the regional bus strategy continues to be developed, with fra...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
The minister is concluding Minister, you need to conclude. You had up to three minutes.
Jim Fairlie SNP
The other flawed option that is being proposed by others is a change to primary legislation. At this point in the parliamentary session, that, too, is simply...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Minister, you need to conclude. Interruption.
Jim Fairlie SNP
I could understand if there was a desire to kill the idea of franchising. The Tory position on the issue is understandable, but what makes no sense whatsoeve...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Minister, I ask you to resume your seat for a second. I have asked the minister to conclude. I will not be barracked, nor will he. I will start naming indivi...
Jim Fairlie SNP
Bear with me, Presiding Officer. If Labour and the Greens vote with the Tories today and annul the regulations, they will have in effect blocked franchising ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
The question on the motion will be taken at decision time. The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S6M-15079, on approval ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Liam Kerr, who joins us remotely, for up to three minutes. 18:27
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I wish to speak against the motion to pass the coronavirus extension regulations, but let me be clear exactly why. I find myself in the perhaps unusual posit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Angela Constance to respond, for up to three minutes, please. 18:29
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
Colleagues will remember that the Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Act 2022 included a number of temporary justice measures to ensure that our ju...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
The question on the motion will be put at decision time. The next item of business is consideration of three Parliamentary Bureau motions. I ask Jamie Hepbu...