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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 30 October 2024

30 Oct 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Schools (Funding)
Gilruth, Jenny SNP Mid Fife and Glenrothes Watch on SPTV

I have no time in hand, unfortunately.

As education secretary, I will fervently defend that policy. I am absolutely clear that it will be much more difficult for our schools to respond to the challenges, whether it be the programme for international student assessment—PISA—results, behaviour, attendance or increasing additional support needs, with fewer teachers. The professionals who make a difference in our schools are our teachers.

Labour’s Opposition debate back in May established that we had unanimous support across the Parliament for protecting teacher numbers. In May, colleagues specifically asked the Government to prevent teacher job losses. I expect that members from across the chamber will therefore support the Government’s amendment, which calls on the COSLA to do just that. I am looking to make sure that the funding is issued in such a way that it is spent only on maintaining teacher numbers and not on other things, in line with the 2024-25 budget that Parliament voted for.

Members will recall the historical position on that funding. It allowed it to flow to local authorities, which then put the Government in a challenging position come teacher census day, when some councils maintained or increased and others that had taken the money cut jobs anyway. This year, we know that some councils have budgeted with the expectation of the funding flowing, and they have cut teacher numbers. That is not a position that I can support, because it is that ring fencing that is protecting investment in Scotland’s education system. There have been more than 2,000 extra teachers in Scotland’s schools since 2018, and there have been 725 extra learning support assistants in the past year alone, which means that we have the lowest pupil teacher ratio in the United Kingdom. There has been £1 billion of investment through the Scottish attainment challenge, which is supporting an extra 3,000 staff, including 1,000 extra teachers.

I recognise the challenges that are faced by those who are seeking permanent employment opportunities, and the Tory motion also references that. It is an issue that I am deeply frustrated by personally, because it relates directly to the local authority employment practices that differ across the country and are not currently in the gift of the Government. It is, however, worth reminding Parliament that the number of teachers who are employed in permanent positions has remained roughly stable at 80 per cent since 2014. However, as I was discussing with a teacher in Fife only this morning, precarity of employment, particularly at the primary level, can have a deeply detrimental impact on the wellbeing of teachers and it also directly harms retention. It is for that reason that the Government will look to accept the Labour amendment.

Presiding Officer, I am conscious of the time. There is a lot to be positive about in Scottish education. The Government is clear that we will not withhold funding from any council that can show in the annual census that it is spending it on teachers. Many councils in Scotland have done exactly that, and I thank them. However, I ask members across the chamber to unite behind the Government amendment tonight and to make it clear that the £145.5 million that is being made available should be accepted by local government to maintain teacher numbers.

I move amendment S6M-15060.3, to leave out from first “believes” to end and insert

“calls on COSLA to accept the £145.5 million that is being made available by the Scottish Government to maintain teacher numbers, in line with the Budget (Scotland) Act 2024, as voted for by the Parliament.”

16:03  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15060, in the name of Miles Briggs, on funding for teachers and schools in Scotland. I invite members who...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
Deputy Presiding Officer, from what you have just said, I think that you would make a good headteacher. I thank my Scottish Conservative colleagues, Liam Ke...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Mr Briggs. That was exemplary time keeping to kick us off. 15:57
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I take this opportunity to welcome Miles Briggs to his new position in education. I know that he cares passionately about improving outcomes for Scotland’s c...
Miles Briggs Con
Dr Sue Ellis, a former professor of education at the University of Strathclyde, has stated that councils are “stuck between a rock and a hard place”, and I...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I would not agree. A number of local authorities have managed to maintain teacher numbers, and I would like to give them the funding right now. I would like ...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I have no time in hand, unfortunately. As education secretary, I will fervently defend that policy. I am absolutely clear that it will be much more difficul...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open the debate for Scottish Labour and to welcome Miles Briggs to his new role. Teachers are the beating heart of our education system. They...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Do I have any time in hand, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Not very much.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I will take a brief intervention.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Does the member at least acknowledge that, in the past year alone, the number of additional learning support assistants has increased by 725, specifically be...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
As the cabinet secretary knows, the situation for pupils with additional support needs in Scotland is, as the Education, Children and Young People Committee ...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I was proud of the £145 million that was included in the budget when the Greens joined the Government in 2021. It was the most significant request that we ma...
Stephen Kerr Con
Will the member give way?
Ross Greer Green
No, I am afraid not; I do not have time. We need to rethink that approach; £145 million of public money was spent with the intention of resulting in more te...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I do not know what kind of crazy logic leads to the conclusion that cutting £145.5 million from local authority budgets will protect teacher numbers. Local a...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I find it hard to follow Mr Rennie’s logic. As we have heard today, we have had two years of consecutive reductions in teacher numbers, but the Government ha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Briefly, cabinet secretary—
Jenny Gilruth SNP
That is exactly what I have been doing since February to get funding out the door. Local authorities will not agree to it. Some of them want the funding, and...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Briefly—
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Is that a position that Mr Rennie supports?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you some of the time back, Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD
The Scottish Government is working on a misunderstanding. The education secretary seems to think that local authorities, including SNP-run Glasgow City Counc...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
The whole problem with the £145 million is that there is, frankly, no specific agreement about how that money will be spent. I have asked that question a hun...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Look in the mirror!
Stephen Kerr Con
You can hold up a mirror, if you like.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude, Mr Kerr.