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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 09 October 2024

09 Oct 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Bus Travel (Asylum Seekers)

It is a pleasure to follow that speech and I congratulate Alex Cole-Hamilton for many of the points that he made.

I begin by putting on record my thanks to many of the organisations that are working to support refugees and asylum seekers in our communities and, frankly, the awe in which I hold them. They include organisations in Glasgow, where a great many refugees and asylum seekers have been located over the years. I acknowledge Refuwegee—I invited Selina Hales as my local hero to the Parliament’s recent 25th anniversary celebrations—the Scottish Refugee Council, and Bikes for Refugees (Scotland). Using bikes is another way of enabling refugees to be able to access all parts of our community safely, healthily and cheaply.

I acknowledge that across most, although not all, political parties, there are a great many individuals, as well as local colleagues—not just members of the Parliament—such as councillors, who have worked hard to try to ensure that refugees and asylum seekers are welcome and are made to feel welcome in our society.

For most, although clearly not all, people, empathy and compassion are part of our human nature: they are hard wired in us. Maggie Chapman was right that we should not be reliant on the work of voluntary organisations and of individuals who choose to try to make a difference to support others. We should value that volunteerism highly, but if compassion and empathy are parts of what we want in our response to the needs of asylum seekers, then it is for all of us, including the state, to offer them.

The UK’s current brutality against asylum seekers did not begin with the Tory Government in 2010; the previous Labour Government also dehumanised asylum seekers. I have to admit that I struggle to have high hopes for a fundamentally new direction, given some of the rhetoric that we heard from Labour politicians during the election campaign. In response to Claire Baker’s comments, I say that I want to be able to hope for a genuine and profound change of direction in the way that the UK Government treats asylum seekers.

In the meantime, irrespective of whether that change at UK level happens, my constituents need help. The policy would cost only a small amount of money but would have a profound impact on the lives and wellbeing of those people, many of whom are the most marginalised, the most vulnerable and the most desperate of our constituents.

I ask members—as, I think, Maggie Chapman’s speech did—to consider the real-life impact of what access to a GP appointment or a hospital appointment means; of what access to volunteering means for human contact and keeping a person’s motivation and skills fresh and alive; of what access to English classes or other education means; and of what access to each other and to community means. Those are fundamental to our ability to have a decent life and to feel part of a community. That goes for all of us, and it absolutely goes for asylum seekers, as well.

Asylum seekers in uncatered accommodation are provided with about £7 a day to live on. One return trip on Glasgow’s buses would take up almost all of that. Those who are in hotel accommodation are expected to live on just £1.36 a day. That is less than half the price of a single bus ticket. The idea that we say no to that basic provision—that simple and compassionate move—should appal any of us.

On the SNP amendment, there is nothing in it that I disagree with. In its own right, I support it, but we need to be clear that, if we are agreeing to the motion, we are agreeing to the commitment, and that is not contingent on UK change. If we pass the motion tonight, as I hope we will, the Scottish Government needs to fund it.

16:31  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-14823, in the name of Maggie Chapman, on free bus travel for asylum seekers. I invite members who wish to...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Imagine a bus stop where a line of people is waiting. They are accustomed to waiting. They have all been waiting for more than a year for a decision on their...
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
I take the opportunity to welcome Sue Webber and Claire Baker to their new positions. I hope that everyone in the chamber would support the idea that people...
Maggie Chapman Green
I am sure that the cabinet secretary will be aware that, last year, prior to the agreed money, a pilot in Glasgow and work in Aberdeen had been delivering fr...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
The experiences helped with my decision and position when I set out the Government’s position a year ago in the debate to which Maggie Chapman referred. I ha...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I need to move on, please. Meanwhile, the Scottish Government remains firmly committed to supporting people seeking asylum, refugees and communities through...
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
Last November, the then First Minister, Humza Yousaf, confirmed the free bus travel for asylum seekers scheme and said that £2 million had been set aside to ...
Maggie Chapman Green
Does the member agree that we should be funding winter fuel payments and free bus travel for asylum seekers? She was in the chamber for the previous debate, ...
Sue Webber Con
I do not recognise the description that it is being hoarded by a few. The only tax that the Green Party seems to like is tax that other people are paying. Th...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
Does Sue Webber recognise that it is extremely dangerous to pit vulnerable groups against each other and that there is no suggestion that money should be tak...
Sue Webber Con
I remind Ms Mackay that our pensioners are some of the most vulnerable people in Scotland. I am standing up for them. This plan shows what is wrong with Scot...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open the debate, and I look forward to working with colleagues across the chamber. I recognise the contribution of Alex Rowley, who was previ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Unlike Sue Webber, I think that this is a very apposite motion to bring to Parliament, and I congratulate the Greens and Maggie Chapman for so doing. First ...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
Would Mr Cole-Hamilton like to reflect on Sue Webber’s comments, which were inherently divisive and pitted the needs of pensioners in this country against pe...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Of course I am willing to condemn those comments. It is wholly wrong to pit one vulnerable group against another, because they are not mutually exclusive, an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Cole-Hamilton, you are over your time. You need to conclude, please.
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I will draw my speech to a conclusion. I absolutely support the Greens’ motion and thank the party for securing it for debate.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to the open debate. 16:27
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
It is a pleasure to follow that speech and I congratulate Alex Cole-Hamilton for many of the points that he made. I begin by putting on record my thanks to ...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
When the topic was debated in the Scottish Parliament last October, I said that we must find a way to deliver free bus travel to all asylum seekers. I also s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
On a procedural point, Mr Doris, you will need to bring your remarks to a close, please.
Bob Doris SNP
The point is that we come together as a Parliament, and we agree on the matter. 16:36
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome Sue Webber to her new role. We have heard contrasting views in the debate today, but all of us want to see support for people locally who ar...
Gillian Mackay Green
Made a request to intervene.
Douglas Ross Con
The link is that the current Scottish Government would like to do all those things if it had more money from Westminster. I will give way if Gillian Mackay i...
Gillian Mackay Green
Will Mr Ross acknowledge that the economic choices of his party are partly what has got us in the mess that we are in now? It is also considerably disinge...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. The intervention was a bit long.
Douglas Ross Con
I am sorry if Gillian Mackay did not hear me. I was actually saying the exact opposite of what she is saying. I support what Sue Webber said, because the Go...
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I begin with the words of the great poet Tom Leonard, who wrote: “I am a human being and I exist a human being and a citizen of the world responsible to...