Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 08 October 2024
08 Oct 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Challenge Poverty Week
What an absolute brass neck. Mr O’Kane should apologise to the pensioners of Scotland for taking their winter fuel payments from them.
From 1994 to 1997, 14 per cent of Scottish households that were in receipt of some benefits were in what was described as “very deep poverty”. However, by 2020 to 2023, there had been no improvement whatsoever. In fact, the figure had risen to 15 per cent. We see a similar pattern in other categories relating specifically to child poverty.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-14820, in the name of John Swinney, on challenge poverty week. I would be grateful if members who wish to...
The First Minister (John Swinney)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to open a debate in Parliament during challenge poverty week. As Parliament will know, on 29 July, the United Kingdom Government an...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Scottish National Party ministers have options, however. One such option would be to defer the block grant adjustment on the winter fuel payment this year so...
The First Minister
SNP
The issue and the challenge with all that is that it would require an entire system to be put in place to deal with the mess that has been created by a Unite...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
The First Minister is right to focus on fuel poverty as we come into winter, and we have seen the energy cap rise. However, does he recognise that the roll-o...
The First Minister
SNP
It is vital that those programmes have the necessary impetus to take account of the challenges that we face in relation to the equipping of homes for the cha...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Much of what the First Minister says about what is required to be done is, of course, welcome. He will hear us on this side of the chamber wishing to collabo...
The First Minister
SNP
The problem with the point that Mr O’Kane puts to me is that we have not yet seen that consequential funding. The problem that the Government has to wrestle ...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
Will the First Minister take an intervention?
The First Minister
SNP
If Mr O’Kane will forgive me, I had better begin to draw my remarks to a conclusion. We make those investments because they are the right thing to do and be...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I call Russell Findlay to speak to and move amendment S6M-14820.1. You have up to 11 minutes, Mr Findlay. 14:37
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Poverty is unjust. It causes misery, crime, illness and premature death. In many parts of Scotland, it has become deep rooted, trapping generation after gene...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I am listening aghast to Russell Findlay’s cognitive dissonance, given the fact that his Government salted the earth and left the public finances in an appal...
Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
It is your Government!
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Let us hear Mr O’Kane.
Paul O’Kane
Lab
It is time that Russell Findlay apologised for poverty in this country instead of standing there and excusing it.
Russell Findlay
Con
What an absolute brass neck. Mr O’Kane should apologise to the pensioners of Scotland for taking their winter fuel payments from them. From 1994 to 1997, 14...
The First Minister
SNP
Mr Findlay has quoted figures up until 2023. Does he believe that the Conservative Government between 2010 and 2023 contributed in any way to the increase in...
Russell Findlay
Con
John Swinney has been a member of the Scottish Government for 16 of the past 17 years. That Government is in receipt of the largest-ever block grant but is u...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Russell Findlay
Con
I need to make some headway. I do not have much time. Throughout those 25 years, successive Labour and SNP Governments have pledged to tackle poverty. Mr Sw...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Russell Findlay
Con
I do not know whether I will get any time back.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We have a little time in hand, Mr Findlay.
Russell Findlay
Con
Okay.
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
I wonder whether the member could tell us: who does he plan to cut benefits from—the poorest, the disabled, or carers? Interruption.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Let us hear one another.
Russell Findlay
Con
This is the same Scottish Government that has demanded full control of the Scottish benefits system for the past 10 years, and it has been delayed. It wants ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Let us hear Mr Findlay.
Russell Findlay
Con
It is ridiculous. People in this country feel that the Scottish Parliament wastes too much time on divisive policies such as gender reform, and that it has ...