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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 08 October 2024

08 Oct 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Challenge Poverty Week
Swinney, John SNP Perthshire North Watch on SPTV

The issue and the challenge with all that is that it would require an entire system to be put in place to deal with the mess that has been created by a United Kingdom Government decision. This Scottish Government spends far too much of its time having to pick up the pieces from that Government’s mistakes.

The cut to winter fuel payments and the increase in energy costs is a double whammy for people in Scotland, especially for many of the older and more vulnerable individuals in our country. The Scottish Government is working urgently to mitigate the impact of the UK Government’s damaging decision.

I have written to councils and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to seek their urgent assistance in promoting the take-up of pension credit, as that is the main qualifying benefit by which our older people receive a pension age winter heating payment. Scottish Government officials have been attending events across the country to raise awareness of the connection between pension credit and the pension age winter heating payment, as well as to provide advice and support.

We are also continuing to invest heavily to protect vulnerable households from poverty and to mitigate the impacts of the UK Government’s approach to funding social security. This year alone, we are spending £134 million on schemes such as discretionary housing payments and the Scottish welfare fund, which provide vital support to households struggling to meet their housing and energy costs.

We have also committed £6.1 billion for benefits expenditure. That is a record for Scotland and nearly £1.1 billion more than the UK Government provides to us through the devolution of social security arrangements. That will help older people and low-income families with their living costs. In total, it will support more than 1.2 million people—around one in four Scots—when all Scottish Government benefits have been introduced and clients have been transferred from the Department for Work and Pensions.

We have consistently uprated all of our benefits in line with inflation, and our intention is to make it a legal requirement to uprate all devolved benefits annually. According to the Scottish Fiscal Commission, that is an estimated investment of at least £6 million for 2025-26, rising to at least £12 million in 2029-30.

Some have questioned and even criticised the level of social security expenditure in Scotland but, more than ever in these tough financial times, my Government and I make no apology for putting more money into the pockets of pensioners, families and those who are struggling with the cost of living.

We are also investing more than £12 million in free income maximisation support, welfare and debt advice services. That includes support for the Citizens Advice Scotland money talk team service, which supported more than 9,000 older people last year. We have invested in our council tax reduction scheme and free bus travel for older people over the age of 60. We have also provided more than £2 million from our equality and human rights fund to support older people’s organisations to deliver work that is focused on tackling inequality and enabling older people to live independent and fulfilling lives.

In all that, we are continuing our other forms of heating cost support. Our winter heating payment guarantees a reliable annual payment of £58.75 to people on low incomes. Unlike the UK Government’s cold weather payment, it does that regardless of the weather or temperature.

We are also continuing our child winter heating payment. Last year, that provided £7.2 million to support more than 30,000 children, young people and their families who had higher fuel needs due to disability or a health condition. Meanwhile, our warmer homes Scotland and area-based schemes support people who are experiencing fuel poverty to make their homes warmer and more fuel efficient.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-14820, in the name of John Swinney, on challenge poverty week. I would be grateful if members who wish to...
The First Minister (John Swinney) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to open a debate in Parliament during challenge poverty week. As Parliament will know, on 29 July, the United Kingdom Government an...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
Scottish National Party ministers have options, however. One such option would be to defer the block grant adjustment on the winter fuel payment this year so...
The First Minister SNP
The issue and the challenge with all that is that it would require an entire system to be put in place to deal with the mess that has been created by a Unite...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
The First Minister is right to focus on fuel poverty as we come into winter, and we have seen the energy cap rise. However, does he recognise that the roll-o...
The First Minister SNP
It is vital that those programmes have the necessary impetus to take account of the challenges that we face in relation to the equipping of homes for the cha...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Much of what the First Minister says about what is required to be done is, of course, welcome. He will hear us on this side of the chamber wishing to collabo...
The First Minister SNP
The problem with the point that Mr O’Kane puts to me is that we have not yet seen that consequential funding. The problem that the Government has to wrestle ...
Paul O’Kane Lab
Will the First Minister take an intervention?
The First Minister SNP
If Mr O’Kane will forgive me, I had better begin to draw my remarks to a conclusion. We make those investments because they are the right thing to do and be...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Russell Findlay to speak to and move amendment S6M-14820.1. You have up to 11 minutes, Mr Findlay. 14:37
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Poverty is unjust. It causes misery, crime, illness and premature death. In many parts of Scotland, it has become deep rooted, trapping generation after gene...
Paul O’Kane Lab
I am listening aghast to Russell Findlay’s cognitive dissonance, given the fact that his Government salted the earth and left the public finances in an appal...
Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
It is your Government!
The Presiding Officer NPA
Let us hear Mr O’Kane.
Paul O’Kane Lab
It is time that Russell Findlay apologised for poverty in this country instead of standing there and excusing it.
Russell Findlay Con
What an absolute brass neck. Mr O’Kane should apologise to the pensioners of Scotland for taking their winter fuel payments from them. From 1994 to 1997, 14...
The First Minister SNP
Mr Findlay has quoted figures up until 2023. Does he believe that the Conservative Government between 2010 and 2023 contributed in any way to the increase in...
Russell Findlay Con
John Swinney has been a member of the Scottish Government for 16 of the past 17 years. That Government is in receipt of the largest-ever block grant but is u...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Russell Findlay Con
I need to make some headway. I do not have much time. Throughout those 25 years, successive Labour and SNP Governments have pledged to tackle poverty. Mr Sw...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Russell Findlay Con
I do not know whether I will get any time back.
The Presiding Officer NPA
We have a little time in hand, Mr Findlay.
Russell Findlay Con
Okay.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I wonder whether the member could tell us: who does he plan to cut benefits from—the poorest, the disabled, or carers? Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Let us hear one another.
Russell Findlay Con
This is the same Scottish Government that has demanded full control of the Scottish benefits system for the past 10 years, and it has been delayed. It wants ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Let us hear Mr Findlay.
Russell Findlay Con
It is ridiculous. People in this country feel that the Scottish Parliament wastes too much time on divisive policies such as gender reform, and that it has ...