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Committee

Criminal Justice Committee 02 October 2024

02 Oct 2024 · S6 · Criminal Justice Committee
Item of business
Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Good morning. I will first speak to amendments 1 and 2, which will add further sources that the chief constable must refer to when preparing the code. That follows evidence that was given to the committee and a committee recommendation. The bill as drafted sets out sources of police ethics to which regard must be had in preparing the code, including the standards of professional behaviour, the constable’s declaration, the policing principles, convention rights and any other human rights instruments that have been ratified by the United Kingdom. Those sources are to assist the chief constable in preparing the code. The rights and obligations under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Act 2024 are an important source, because they now have the same domestic status as rights under the European convention on human rights. I thank the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland for suggesting that we add that. I am grateful to Amnesty International for its suggestion that Police Scotland’s code of ethics should reflect the European code of police ethics. I believe that that will be a valuable source to consider when preparing the code of ethics, so my amendment 1 adds it to the list. The UN code of conduct for law enforcement officials and the UN basic principles on the use of force and firearms by law enforcement officials are further worthy sources of police standards that will add value to Police Scotland’s code of ethics. I urge the committee to support amendments 1 and 2. Before I turn to Katy Clark’s amendment 48, I will speak to amendment 3. The bill lists mandatory consultees that the chief constable must consult when drafting the code of ethics. Following evidence from human rights organisations, my amendment 3 will add to the list the Scottish Human Rights Commission and the Equality and Human Rights Commission. I agree with the evidence of Amnesty International that the mandatory consultees should include the Scottish Human Rights Commission. That commission will add value to and enhance the content of Police Scotland’s code of ethics. The Equality and Human Rights Commission told the committee about the positive impact of embedding the consideration of equality in the code of ethics. I believe that the commission will provide valuable advice as consultees and—importantly—could highlight where the code could better reflect the Equality Act 2010. That would strengthen the capacity for Police Scotland to deliver on its equality, diversity and inclusion and human rights aspirations. Adding those bodies to the list will ensure that they comment on the code, and that is a stronger measure than using the 2010 act as a source, which is what Katy Clark’s amendment 48 seeks to do. I now turn to that amendment. The chief constable is already legally obliged to comply with her duties under the 2010 act, by virtue of the terms of that act. To add the 2010 act to the list of sources for the code would impose on her a lesser obligation than already exists and would create confusion and legal risk. I believe that my amendment 3 is stronger and would not interfere with the structure of the chief constable’s duties under the 2010 act. Katy Clark’s amendment 49 is about the reporting obligation on the chief constable to make a statement if, following a periodic review of the code, there are no changes to make. The amendment would require the chief constable to set out details of changes that were suggested but rejected during the review. The bill already provides that the chief constable must lay a statement before the Parliament if she has concluded that there is no need to revise the code after a review has taken place. I understand the need to assure both officers and the public that the code is keeping pace with ethical standards, but I am concerned that amendment 49, as lodged, might have unexpected consequences, such as publishing comments or information—for example, from private individuals—that were not intended to be made public. I would like to understand more about Katy Clark’s intentions and purpose ahead of stage 3, to see whether we can find a way to meet her objectives while avoiding unintended consequences. I urge the committee not to support amendments 48 and 49. Sharon Dowey’s amendment 4 relates to whom the chief constable must consult and share a draft with when preparing the code. The list is set out in the bill and includes people and organisations with relevant knowledge or expertise, such as staff networks that represent particular minority groups. I welcome amendment 4 in principle. It would require the chief constable, when preparing the code of ethics, to consult those who are “representative of individuals who have made a complaint against the Police”. That would allow for people with direct experience of the complaints system to input into ethical policing. However, although I believe that the principles of amendment 4 would enhance the code, the wording does not make it clear that it is the voices of complainers as a group that must be heard, rather than those of individual complainers, which might make the measure ineffective or have unintended consequences, such as hampering preparation of the code. To ensure that the provision can be effective, I ask Sharon Dowey not to move amendment 4, and I commit to working with her to bring it back at stage 3. Sharon Dowey’s amendment 50 proposes to insert a new, free-standing section to place a duty on the chief constable to review—for consistency with the code of ethics— “the policies, procedures and guidance that relate to discipline and conduct” and to make any changes that are identified “within one year of Royal Assent.” The duty on the chief constable is to prepare the code “as soon as is reasonably practicable after section 2 of the ... Act ... comes into force.” Even once the duty commences, a great deal of work will be involved in preparing and consulting on the code, so it makes no sense to have a requirement to complete a review within a year of royal assent. That period could have ended before the code was published. In addition, on-going work will lead to substantial change in the policies, procedures and guidance that relate to discipline and conduct. All the recommendations that Dame Elish Angiolini made in her independent review that do not require legislative change are in the process of being implemented, His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland’s assurance review of conduct is on-going and there will be new conduct and vetting regulations, as well as all the other work that will have to be done as a result of the bill. A review that took place before those changes had been made would quickly become entirely redundant. It is essential that the code of ethics does not become a disciplinary code by the back door, so no amendment should be worded in such a way that it risks conflating the code with the standards of professional behaviour. However, I agree that the discipline and conduct policies, procedures and guidance and the code should form a coherent body, so I am willing to work with Sharon Dowey ahead of stage 3 on the issue. I urge her not to move amendment 50 and, if she moves it, I urge the committee to vote against it. I move amendment 1.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Audrey Nicoll) SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the 30th meeting in 2024 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have no apologies. Our main item of business is consideration of...
The Convener SNP
The first group of amendments is on the code of ethics. Amendment 1, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 48, 2, 49, 3, 4 and 50.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
Good morning. I will first speak to amendments 1 and 2, which will add further sources that the chief constable must refer to when preparing the code. That f...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I will support the Government’s and Sharon Dowey’s amendments, if they are pressed to a vote. I do not intend to press my amendments 48 and 49 to a vote toda...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con
We intend to support the amendments in the group if they are pressed to a vote. Amendment 4 seeks to add to the list of people who should be consulted on th...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I seek clarification on the cabinet secretary’s position on Katy Clark’s amendments. The Government’s amendment 1 seeks to adopt, for example, the European c...
Sharon Dowey Con
No—the position is as the cabinet secretary said. It is not about consulting every person who has had a complaint in the police system but about taking a gro...
Pauline McNeill Lab
Right. I know that that will be for discussion between you and the cabinet secretary but, when the revised amendment is being framed, I would like it to be c...
The Convener SNP
I will bring in the cabinet secretary, and Sharon Dowey can come back in if she wants to add anything.
Angela Constance SNP
I reiterate that I am more than happy to work with Katy Clark and Sharon Dowey in advance of stage 3. On the concerns about the phrase “lesser obligation”, ...
The Convener SNP
As no other member wants to come in, do you want to add anything else in winding up?
Angela Constance SNP
No, thank you. I think that I have done my winding up. Amendment 1 agreed to. Amendment 48 not moved. Amendment 2 moved—Angela Constance—and agreed to. ...
The Convener SNP
We move to group 2, on duty on candour. Amendment 5, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 6 to 11.
Angela Constance SNP
Amendments 5, 8 and 11 relate to the individual duty of candour inserted into the standards of professional behaviour and the organisational duty added to th...
Sharon Dowey Con
Amendment 6 adds to the provisions that would introduce a duty of candour to the Police Service of Scotland (Senior Officers) (Conduct) Regulations 2013. The...
Katy Clark Lab
I support the Scottish Government’s intention to attempt to strengthen and codify the duty of candour. The duty of candour for public officials is a live iss...
The Convener SNP
There was quite a lot in there. I will bring in Pauline McNeill, before the cabinet secretary responds. 09:30
Pauline McNeill Lab
Thank you. I am in the same position as Katy Clark, in that I think that the amendments in this group are really important, regardless of how they have been...
The Convener SNP
If no other members wish to come in, I will bring in the cabinet secretary to wind up.
Angela Constance SNP
On the types of offences related to misusing public office, there is a live discussion across the UK right now, for various reasons that cut across the Hills...
Pauline McNeill Lab
There were quite a few points that you did not cover there. The one that I am keen to understand relates to the language around “reasonable assertion”.
Angela Constance SNP
There are complicated questions in relation to application and scope, so I will probably require a bit of consultation with legal officials and will come bac...
Pauline McNeill Lab
To be fair, I did not expect you to answer that. It is just that we are going to vote on the matter shortly, so I want to be sure about what “reasonable asse...
Angela Constance SNP
I do not have anything to add to or subtract from what I have said. Amendment 5 agreed to. Amendment 6 not moved. Amendments 7 and 8 moved—Angela Constanc...
The Convener SNP
The next group is on the vetting of constables and police staff. Amendment 43, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 44 to 47.
Angela Constance SNP
The amendments in group 3 respond directly to the recommendation that was made by His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland to ensure that there...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am extremely concerned about these amendments. The bill was published on 6 June, and here we are, 12 weeks later, considering a load of amendments from the...
Pauline McNeill Lab
Like Russell Findlay, I have heard similar concerns. Cabinet secretary, you opened by saying that the committee had asked for these changes, but that is not...
Katy Clark Lab
I am very sympathetic to what the Scottish Government is trying to do. It is clear that we need to strengthen the vetting processes that existed historically...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
It is clear that vetting procedures need to be strengthened, and that is what the amendments are trying to do. Going back to Russell Findlay’s comments, I a...