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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 September 2024

25 Sep 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Business Motions

Moving an amendment to the business motion is not something that I do lightly, but I do so because I passionately believe in Parliament giving its members ample time to scrutinise legislation. We should all know that rushed legislation can be bad legislation.

First, let me say what the minister’s business motion seeks to do. It seeks to set a timetable for dealing with the Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill. In trying to amend the business motion, I am interested only in that timetable; I am not interested in the bill itself, save to say that it is an important piece of legislation.

The minister wants us to have the following timetable. Stage 1 would be on Thursday 10 October. Should the bill pass that hurdle, stage 2 would be completed by Tuesday 29 October. Members will immediately realise that that takes in our two-week October recess. That is an issue that we should seek to avoid, but we can probably live with it.

With stage 2 having been completed by 29 October, the minister then wants stage 3 to be done and dusted on 31 October. That gives members and officials just two days to turn around amendments to a bill in which there is a great deal of interest. Parliament can act at pace, and it has done so on occasion in emergencies, but the only reason why we are being asked to do so on this occasion is to spare the Government’s blushes. That is because, under the law as it stands, which the bill seeks to amend, the Government has to produce a draft climate change plan by the end of November, and it is nowhere near doing that. That is the Government’s problem, which, quite frankly, is the Government’s fault. Parliament is not here to spare the Government’s blushes or to get it out of a hole. We are here to do our jobs properly.

The Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee has been very careful not to express a view on timetabling, but it has written about

“the importance of there being adequate time between stages 2 and 3 for the implications of any stage 2 amendment agreed in committee being carefully considered.”

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-14652, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on the timetabl...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Graham Simpson to speak to and move amendment S6M-14652.1. 16:50
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Moving an amendment to the business motion is not something that I do lightly, but I do so because I passionately believe in Parliament giving its members am...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to Graham Simpson for taking an intervention. Of course, it is not for the committee to decide on stage 3—that is for the Parliament to do. How...
Graham Simpson Con
I am very pleased to hear that. Mr Whitfield is absolutely right, because in no one’s world—not even the minister’s, if he is honest about it—is two days eno...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I invite Jamie Hepburn to respond on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau. 16:54
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
First, I thank the Presiding Officer for reminding members that I speak on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau. The business motion represents the bureau’s po...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Will the minister take an intervention?
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I think that it is important that Parliament hears this, after which I will give way to Mr Harvie. Therefore, seeking to agree a timetable that does not all...
Patrick Harvie Green
The minister is aware that Opposition parties on the Parliamentary Bureau understand the need for an expedited process—indeed, we have all acknowledged that ...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
In ordinary circumstances, I would agree with the fundamental points that Patrick Harvie has made. Initially, it was my expectation that we could have worked...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I will give way in a minute, because I am about to mention the member. Having engaged with its convener, I know that that was not the Net Zero, Energy and T...
Edward Mountain Con
I want to reiterate the timescales to Parliament. I do so as an individual, although I am the convener of the committee. In August 2023, we became aware that...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I will not denigrate the committee. I am very grateful for the time that the convener has given me, and I recognise that the committee has tried to accommoda...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The question is, that amendment S6M-14652.1, in the name of Graham Simpson, which seeks to amend motion S6M-14652, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of...
The Presiding Officer NPA
There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:02 Meeting suspended. 17:04 On resuming—
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the vote on amendment S6M-14652.1, in the name of Graham Simpson. Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed.
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My device was a little unclear as to whether it had refreshed on time. I would have voted for the amendment.
The Presiding Officer NPA
I can confirm that your vote was recorded, Mr Harvie. For Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The result of the division on amendment S6M-14652.1, in the name of Graham Simpson, is: For 60, Against 60, Abstentions 0. The vote is tied. As is usual whe...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The next question is, that motion S6M-14652, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on the timetable for consideration of the Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
There will be a division. The vote is closed.
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. It did not look as though my app had connected, but it has now told me that I did vote yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you, Ms Haughey. I can confirm that that is the case and that your vote has been recorded. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The result of the division on motion S6M-14652, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, is: For 60, Against 61, Abstentions 0. Motion disagreed to.
The Presiding Officer NPA
As the motion has not been agreed to, we currently have no timetable for the bill. There is a scheduled meeting of the Parliamentary Bureau this evening, and...