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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 September 2024

18 Sep 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland
Swinney, John SNP Perthshire North Watch on SPTV

I will explain to Mr Ross exactly what has happened, if he is not familiar with what he has voted for. This Parliament had exclusive power over a range of competences devolved by the United Kingdom Parliament. That was what was put to people in the 1997 referendum, and it was supported by three to one, if my memory serves me correctly. However, the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 gives the UK Government the ability to legislate on and act in those areas. That is called the erosion of the powers of the Scottish Parliament.

That is before I get to the point that, between 1997 and 2019, when there were Labour, Conservative and Conservative-Liberal coalitions in Westminster, the Sewel convention was never ignored on any occasion. However, following that period, the Conservative Government ignored, superseded and countermanded that on countless occasions, legislating over the heads of this democratically elected institution. That should be a matter of the greatest concern to the Conservatives, as it is to me today.

Scotland has prospered with the use of the devolved powers that we have at our disposal. In the aftermath of the 1997 referendum, Scotland demonstrated that we had the capability to assume those powers. Since then, Scotland’s economy has outperformed the UK in growth, in gross domestic product per person, in growth in productivity, in earnings growth and in foreign direct investment. We have an impressive record on GDP per capita, which has grown faster than the UK’s since 2007. Since 2007, productivity in Scotland has grown at an average rate faster than that in the rest of the United Kingdom.

When we look at the evidence from comparable independent European states—many of which are the same size as Scotland—we can see that they perform better than the United Kingdom. For me, that poses the question, “What is the opportunity for Scotland to move forward?” The opportunity for Scotland is to ensure that we deploy the strength and capability of our country to the maximum effect for the future of our country, ensuring that decisions made in Scotland by the Scottish Parliament are respected and able to be effective across all the areas of policy that any Government would take for granted.

I believe that an independent Scotland should be able to rejoin the European Union and pursue the prospects of growth and opportunity that so many of our people and our businesses want to enjoy. I believe that an independent Scotland could deliver a fairer and more welcoming system of migration, helping the economy to grow while addressing depopulation challenges and supporting vital public services. I believe that an independent Scotland would remove, sensibly and safely, nuclear weapons from Scotland’s shores for good, and that an independent Scotland would be able to benefit from the terms of a written constitution and from investment in our public services, using our wealth to secure the future of our country.

All of that is possible, based on the experience of devolution and Scottish self-determination, and on the principle that decisions taken about this country are best taken by the people who choose to live here and those who are elected to act on their behalf. That is the foundation of the argument for Scottish independence. It is the foundation of what people have experienced with devolution. It is urgent and essential that Scotland becomes independent, and the motion in my name sets out that case.

I move,

That the Parliament agrees that the Scottish Government should use all its powers to build a modern, diverse, dynamic nation, and further agrees that it is only with all the powers of a normal independent nation that Scotland would truly be enabled to take its own decisions to fully meet the needs of the people of Scotland and create their best future.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland. I invite members ...
The First Minister (John Swinney) SNP
From my experience of taking part in every year of this Parliament since it was reconvened 25 years ago, one thing is clear—no matter where any of us sit in ...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
As the First Minister is speaking about powers, will he outline how many powers he has been offered by the UK Government but has returned to it because the S...
The First Minister SNP
It is clear from what I have set out so far, and from my comments earlier today, that, since the independence referendum in 2014, there has been a strengthen...
Douglas Ross Con
It is the powers that—
The First Minister SNP
The powers that I am concerned about are the powers of this Parliament that the people of Scotland voted for in a democratic referendum in 1997. Those powers...
Douglas Ross Con
I will try a different question, then. Will the First Minister tell this Parliament one power that the UK Government has taken away from the Scottish Governm...
The First Minister SNP
The use of the internal market—
Douglas Ross Con
One power that has been taken away.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Mr Ross.
The First Minister SNP
I will explain to Mr Ross exactly what has happened, if he is not familiar with what he has voted for. This Parliament had exclusive power over a range of co...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Douglas Ross to speak to and to move amendment S6M-14524.4. 15:11
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I want to start by imagining a different decade to the one that we have had—not a different outcome on 18 September 2014, because the people of Scotland vote...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Let us hear Mr Ross.
Douglas Ross Con
I believe that Scotland is a modern, dynamic and diverse country—that is set out in my amendment. However, the SNP does not believe that; that is clear from ...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes) SNP
I am a big fan of being true to your word. What would have happened if the Conservatives had been true to their word, when they said, “Vote no to stay in the...
Douglas Ross Con
I am sorry, but the Deputy First Minister cannot pick and choose. “One choice” is what the nationalists told us in 2014. They said that it was a “once-in-a-g...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Always speak through the chair, please.
Douglas Ross Con
I cannot believe that the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care does not believe that our health service is in crisis. I am happy to give way if he ca...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray) SNP
I refuse to talk down the work of the incredible staff and committed workforce in our health service. The First Minister provided a list of the Government’s ...
Douglas Ross Con
Can the health secretary not understand that we have the highest number of drug deaths not just in the United Kingdom but across Europe and that one in six p...
The First Minister SNP
Will Mr Ross give way?
Douglas Ross Con
Is there extra time for an intervention?
The Presiding Officer NPA
There is no extra time.
Douglas Ross Con
I am sorry, but I have given way twice to members on the SNP front bench. In his motion, John Swinney claims that independence is “normal”, but a democracy ...
The First Minister SNP
Will Mr Ross give way?
Douglas Ross Con
I am sorry, but I am very tight for time. If there was an opportunity for me to get more time, I would give way.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Taking interventions, within members’ allocated time, is a matter for members.
Douglas Ross Con
I am sorry, but I have already taken two interventions from members on the Government front bench. As historians look back over the past 10 years, they will...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Anas Sarwar to speak to and move amendment S6M-14524.5. 15:20