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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 September 2024

18 Sep 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland
Swinney, John SNP Perthshire North Watch on SPTV

From my experience of taking part in every year of this Parliament since it was reconvened 25 years ago, one thing is clear—no matter where any of us sit in this chamber, we each stood for election because we care deeply about Scotland’s future. We stood for election because we know that decisions about Scotland’s future are best determined by people who live in Scotland. No matter where we sit in this chamber, we agree that it is our aspiration that Scotland maintains her place in the world as a modern, diverse and dynamic nation.

Scotland is the home of poets, painters, engineers, doctors and thinkers throughout the ages. We are a nation on the cutting edge of solving many of the 21st century’s most complex challenges. We are an outward-looking country that values our relationship with our neighbours and friends across the world, and it is in that spirit that I open the debate this afternoon.

There exists in Scotland a range of opinions and emotions that we must embrace and discuss openly and respectfully. As I am about to set out, to do so is to maintain the very health of our democracy itself—a democracy that each of us has stood for election to represent. It is a story of the pursuit of self-determination, which found new momentum when, in 1997, the people of Scotland voted overwhelmingly to reconvene the Scottish Parliament. It was clear then, and it is clear now, that Scotland is a nation with all the talent, creativity and ingenuity to chart her own course and to steer her own democratic institutions.

The positive impact of devolution is indisputable. For 25 years, devolution has improved the lives of people in Scotland, making this a better and fairer place to live, through policies such as equal marriage; free personal care for older people; minimum unit pricing for alcohol; free bus travel for more than 2 million people; a ban on smoking in public places; land reform; and—something that is very close to my heart—action on child poverty through measures such as the Scottish child payment.

Among many other achievements since 2007, this Government has used the powers of devolution to introduce the baby box, which supports every baby born and resident in Scotland to have the best start in life by providing families with essential items that are needed in the first six months of a child’s life. We have also ensured that Scotland-domiciled students continue to receive free university tuition, unlike elsewhere in the United Kingdom, given that we abolished the graduate endowment fee in 2008. We have introduced free prescriptions, which are now £9.90 per item south of the border, which is a huge cost for low-income families.

Our council tax reduction scheme reduces the tax bills of more than 450,000 people in Scotland, and free personal and nursing care has been extended to everyone who needs it, regardless of age. There is the affordable housing programme, which has delivered 128,000 affordable homes, the majority of which are for social rent. Of course, there is also the provision of 1,140 hours of funded early learning and childcare. If families were to purchase the funded childcare that is provided by the Scottish Government, it would cost more than £5,500 per eligible child per year.

None of that has been achieved by the Scottish Government in isolation, but through the strength of this Parliament and our common commitment to Scotland’s self-determination. Therefore, regardless of where members sit in this chamber, and regardless of whether members view everything that I have listed as successes, I trust that members will agree that people living in Scotland are substantially better off with a Parliament that fights their corner, leads for progress and champions the value of our unique and diverse communities, from every single corner of our country.

Each of us in the chamber is extremely fortunate, for the Parliament gives us each a voice, and whenever we enter this building, as unique as Scotland itself, it reminds us of our duty to ensure that the people of Scotland are heard, too. Our modern, diverse and dynamic democracy is our greatest asset. In many ways, 2014 was a year that proved that. The bill on equal marriage passed, which was one of the most progressive equal marriage bills in the world, and it sent out a clear message about who we are as a nation. Turnout for the independence referendum was the highest recorded at any Scotland-wide poll since the advent of universal suffrage.

That referendum was preceded by a genuine and serious national debate on the future of our nation. I wish to acknowledge that the national debate was not easy for every voter. There were certainly lively discussions, but maintaining a healthy democracy is hard, because it requires us to navigate our differences respectfully. If that were easy, we would not observe the sharp rises in populism that can emerge in times of economic hardship and uncertainty. However, when I think back to 10 years ago, I can think of no better example of modern democracy in action. Both the Scottish and the United Kingdom Governments published detailed papers of their arguments. There were vigorous campaigns and grass-roots involvement of people across the country, and the historic importance of the decision was reflected in the length of time allowed for both sides to make their cases.

The people of Scotland were able to take their decision. My firm view is that the people of Scotland should have the opportunity to take that decision again. This Parliament has confirmed its belief that it should be open to any nation of the United Kingdom to choose to withdraw from the union by democratic means. That is my view, and I believe that that view of this Parliament should be respected.

It is clear that, since the 2014 independence referendum and, sadly, since Brexit, which Scotland did not vote for, the powers and autonomy of the Scottish Parliament have been eroded. They have been eroded, on the excuse of Brexit, to enable Westminster to overrule this Parliament. The people of this country who voted for this Parliament to have the powers that it does were not asked whether they wanted the powers to be eroded.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland. I invite members ...
The First Minister (John Swinney) SNP
From my experience of taking part in every year of this Parliament since it was reconvened 25 years ago, one thing is clear—no matter where any of us sit in ...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
As the First Minister is speaking about powers, will he outline how many powers he has been offered by the UK Government but has returned to it because the S...
The First Minister SNP
It is clear from what I have set out so far, and from my comments earlier today, that, since the independence referendum in 2014, there has been a strengthen...
Douglas Ross Con
It is the powers that—
The First Minister SNP
The powers that I am concerned about are the powers of this Parliament that the people of Scotland voted for in a democratic referendum in 1997. Those powers...
Douglas Ross Con
I will try a different question, then. Will the First Minister tell this Parliament one power that the UK Government has taken away from the Scottish Governm...
The First Minister SNP
The use of the internal market—
Douglas Ross Con
One power that has been taken away.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Mr Ross.
The First Minister SNP
I will explain to Mr Ross exactly what has happened, if he is not familiar with what he has voted for. This Parliament had exclusive power over a range of co...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Douglas Ross to speak to and to move amendment S6M-14524.4. 15:11
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I want to start by imagining a different decade to the one that we have had—not a different outcome on 18 September 2014, because the people of Scotland vote...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Let us hear Mr Ross.
Douglas Ross Con
I believe that Scotland is a modern, dynamic and diverse country—that is set out in my amendment. However, the SNP does not believe that; that is clear from ...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes) SNP
I am a big fan of being true to your word. What would have happened if the Conservatives had been true to their word, when they said, “Vote no to stay in the...
Douglas Ross Con
I am sorry, but the Deputy First Minister cannot pick and choose. “One choice” is what the nationalists told us in 2014. They said that it was a “once-in-a-g...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Always speak through the chair, please.
Douglas Ross Con
I cannot believe that the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care does not believe that our health service is in crisis. I am happy to give way if he ca...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray) SNP
I refuse to talk down the work of the incredible staff and committed workforce in our health service. The First Minister provided a list of the Government’s ...
Douglas Ross Con
Can the health secretary not understand that we have the highest number of drug deaths not just in the United Kingdom but across Europe and that one in six p...
The First Minister SNP
Will Mr Ross give way?
Douglas Ross Con
Is there extra time for an intervention?
The Presiding Officer NPA
There is no extra time.
Douglas Ross Con
I am sorry, but I have given way twice to members on the SNP front bench. In his motion, John Swinney claims that independence is “normal”, but a democracy ...
The First Minister SNP
Will Mr Ross give way?
Douglas Ross Con
I am sorry, but I am very tight for time. If there was an opportunity for me to get more time, I would give way.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Taking interventions, within members’ allocated time, is a matter for members.
Douglas Ross Con
I am sorry, but I have already taken two interventions from members on the Government front bench. As historians look back over the past 10 years, they will...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Anas Sarwar to speak to and move amendment S6M-14524.5. 15:20