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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 11 September 2024

11 Sep 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Rail Fares
Rowley, Alex Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

First, I want to highlight the difference in approach between the Scottish National Party and Scottish Labour on the issue of peak rail fares. The SNP’s view seems to be that withdrawing peak fares was giving a subsidy to workers who travel to and from work by train at certain times of the day. Scottish Labour views peak fares as a tax on workers who use the train to get to and from work. In other words, workers are penalised if they have to use the train between certain hours of the day to get to and from work.

The cabinet secretary says that the pilot mostly benefited those with medium to higher incomes, and we need to talk about what that means. The phrase “middle earners” might mean one thing to the SNP, but I have been contacted by nurses, teaching assistants, a janitor and a hotel worker, all of whom are front-line workers who would fall into the category of middle earners—according to the SNP—and none of those workers felt that it was fair to be charged a premium for overcrowded and unreliable train services that they rely on to get to and from their work.

Even if we accept the SNP’s view that removing peak fares provides a subsidy to middle earners, I ask that we be realistic about the chance of getting more people to leave the car at home and travel by rail. If we want people to move from their car to public transport, ultimately, any measures will have to benefit middle earners, as they are more likely to be driving than people on low incomes. Inspiring modal shifts means targeting those who are driving and giving them a reason to change their mode of transport. That must mean making rail travel affordable, accessible and reliable. It certainly needs to be cheaper to use the train than it is to use the car.

If we do not make modal shifts, we will continue to face an uphill struggle. John Swinney recently said that he believes that the Government will still achieve a 20 per cent reduction in car kilometres travelled by 2030. Personally, I think that that is pie in the sky. However, in reality, the SNP is unlikely to be in power by then, and it is easy to make targets for the future and then take little action to meet them.

The Scottish Government is trying to sell the removal of peak fares as a failure but, during an unprecedented time of SNP chaotic mismanagement that included delays, cancellations and the imposition of an emergency timetable—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-14405, in the name of Graham Simpson, on ending peak rail fares on ScotRail trains. I ask members who wis...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Just before Parliament returned from the summer recess, Fiona Hyslop announced that peak fares will be returning to Scotland’s railways. There was no debate—...
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
I point the member, who I am sure is a regular rail user, to the position in his Central Scotland region. Take a rail journey from Airdrie to Edinburgh. If p...
Graham Simpson Con
My fare from East Kilbride to Edinburgh will rocket by 83.8 per cent. That is not a saving. In March, the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Fir...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
It is a pity that the off-peak fares pilot did not create the greater patronage that was expected to cover the costs. Did Mr Simpson take full advantage of ...
Graham Simpson Con
I regularly use the train, and my staff use the train all the time. It is just going to become more expensive for them now. That is a real shame, and Mr Stew...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Fiona Hyslop, the cabinet secretary, to speak to and move amendment S6M-14405.3. 16:11
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
Last October, we introduced the ScotRail peak fares removal pilot, supported by £40 million in Government funding. It was a bold and pioneering initiative, w...
Graham Simpson Con
When the cabinet secretary announced the decision, she admitted that, in some cases, people had saved thousands of pounds through the pilot. Does she agree, ...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Although it saved many passengers hundreds and, in some cases, thousands of pounds during the period, it primarily benefited existing train passengers and th...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I am sorry, but I cannot give way, as I have limited time. I wanted the pilot to succeed, and I am disappointed that it did not. The moderate increase in pa...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Alex Rowley to speak to and move amendment S6M-14405.2. 16:16
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
First, I want to highlight the difference in approach between the Scottish National Party and Scottish Labour on the issue of peak rail fares. The SNP’s view...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Will the member give way? It is an important point.
Alex Rowley Lab
No. I am sorry, but I have only a few minutes left. During that unprecedented time, rail use increased by 6.8 per cent, which was incredible, given all that...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Rowley, you are over your time.
Alex Rowley Lab
I support the motion. I move amendment S6M-14405.2, to insert at end: “, and agrees that making public transport more accessible, affordable and reliable i...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I welcome the fact that the Tories have chosen the cream of the crop of Scottish Green policies to champion in the chamber. Whether that is just blatant oppo...
Finlay Carson Con
Will the member give way?
Mark Ruskell Green
Is there time in hand, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is no time in hand. It is up to the member whether to take an intervention.
Mark Ruskell Green
I need to progress. I am sorry. Ticket prices for the most popular Edinburgh to Glasgow route will more than double, from £14.90 to a staggering £31.40. Tha...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I welcome the opportunity to speak on behalf of Scottish Liberal Democrats this afternoon. We will support the motion and the Labour amendment, but we will n...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
There were four campaigns during the pilot, with 4 million views on pay television and a radio podcast. People in my town received an A3 fold-out print. Ther...
Beatrice Wishart LD
The RMT briefing states that it believes that the methodology that the Scottish Government used to evaluate the trial did not look at demand at peak time, wh...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. Back benchers’ speeches should be of up to four minutes. There is no time in hand. 16:29
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Despite his authoritarian misrule, Benito Mussolini is credited with making Italy’s trains run on time. In fact, a look back in time reveals that he did not,...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee City West) (SNP) SNP
Shameful!
Craig Hoy Con
—smiling for photographers when she proudly opened East Linton station, which has been warmly welcomed and is much needed by the community.