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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 11 September 2024

11 Sep 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Rail Fares

My fare from East Kilbride to Edinburgh will rocket by 83.8 per cent. That is not a saving.

In March, the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen, the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers, Unite the union, the Transport Salaried Staffs Association, the Scottish Trades Union Congress, Stop Climate Chaos Scotland, Transform Scotland, Friends of the Earth Scotland and the Just Transition Partnership issued a letter to Fiona Hyslop. It read:

“If you were to restore peak fares it would be a retrograde step that would send exactly the wrong message at the wrong time. We urge you to do the right thing, scrap peak fares permanently to help Scotland meet its climate targets”.

Mike Robinson of Stop Climate Chaos Scotland will be delighted that I am quoting him. In March, he said:

“If we are serious about tackling the climate crisis, along with reducing inequality and improving health and wellbeing, it’s a no-brainer that using public transport should be cheaper than driving.”

I would not want to leave out my good friend Kevin Lindsay of ASLEF, who, in May, said:

“Surely just at the time the Scottish Government has backtracked on its net zero targets they should be doing all they can to make our trains more affordable and reduce CO2 emissions from road travel, which their own policy is committed to.”

Not for the first time, Mr Lindsay is bang on the money, as is Alex Rowley, whose amendment we will support because it calls on the Government to reverse that retrograde step. The Government amendment does not do that, so it should be rejected.

I should say that I would have been happy to support the Greens’ amendment, too, had it been selected for debate, and I give them credit for their work in getting peak fares scrapped in the first place, although, of course, others were also calling for the same thing.

If we want to get greater numbers of people to use public transport instead of driving, we have to make it simple and affordable. However, the service also has to be reliable, and it has not been. Almost 6,000 ScotRail trains have been cancelled since April, and more than a quarter of a million pounds has been paid out in compensation for delayed or cancelled trains. Two million pounds has been paid out since the nationalisation that was supposed to make things better. We have an unreliable service, and now it is to be more expensive. If the policy was to get more people on to the roads, that would be genius.

Fiona Hyslop has not been able to explain how increasing fares will help the Scottish Government achieve its ambition of cutting car miles by a fifth by 2030. Last week, the dire programme for government warned darkly of “demand management” measures. People might be tempted to hop in the car rather than taking the train from now on. However, I say to drivers of Scotland, “Beware: the SNP is coming for you”. The SNP Government is just not saying what it has in store yet. Maybe it is road pricing. It will certainly coin it in on that, at this rate.

It may surprise members to know that I do not always agree with the RMT, but, last week, it produced a critique of the Government’s backward decision that was spot on. It said—quite rightly—that the evaluation of the trial looked at the impact on overall demand and did not assess the impact on demand in peak time only.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-14405, in the name of Graham Simpson, on ending peak rail fares on ScotRail trains. I ask members who wis...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Just before Parliament returned from the summer recess, Fiona Hyslop announced that peak fares will be returning to Scotland’s railways. There was no debate—...
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
I point the member, who I am sure is a regular rail user, to the position in his Central Scotland region. Take a rail journey from Airdrie to Edinburgh. If p...
Graham Simpson Con
My fare from East Kilbride to Edinburgh will rocket by 83.8 per cent. That is not a saving. In March, the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Fir...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
It is a pity that the off-peak fares pilot did not create the greater patronage that was expected to cover the costs. Did Mr Simpson take full advantage of ...
Graham Simpson Con
I regularly use the train, and my staff use the train all the time. It is just going to become more expensive for them now. That is a real shame, and Mr Stew...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Fiona Hyslop, the cabinet secretary, to speak to and move amendment S6M-14405.3. 16:11
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
Last October, we introduced the ScotRail peak fares removal pilot, supported by £40 million in Government funding. It was a bold and pioneering initiative, w...
Graham Simpson Con
When the cabinet secretary announced the decision, she admitted that, in some cases, people had saved thousands of pounds through the pilot. Does she agree, ...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Although it saved many passengers hundreds and, in some cases, thousands of pounds during the period, it primarily benefited existing train passengers and th...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I am sorry, but I cannot give way, as I have limited time. I wanted the pilot to succeed, and I am disappointed that it did not. The moderate increase in pa...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Alex Rowley to speak to and move amendment S6M-14405.2. 16:16
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
First, I want to highlight the difference in approach between the Scottish National Party and Scottish Labour on the issue of peak rail fares. The SNP’s view...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Will the member give way? It is an important point.
Alex Rowley Lab
No. I am sorry, but I have only a few minutes left. During that unprecedented time, rail use increased by 6.8 per cent, which was incredible, given all that...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Rowley, you are over your time.
Alex Rowley Lab
I support the motion. I move amendment S6M-14405.2, to insert at end: “, and agrees that making public transport more accessible, affordable and reliable i...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I welcome the fact that the Tories have chosen the cream of the crop of Scottish Green policies to champion in the chamber. Whether that is just blatant oppo...
Finlay Carson Con
Will the member give way?
Mark Ruskell Green
Is there time in hand, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is no time in hand. It is up to the member whether to take an intervention.
Mark Ruskell Green
I need to progress. I am sorry. Ticket prices for the most popular Edinburgh to Glasgow route will more than double, from £14.90 to a staggering £31.40. Tha...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I welcome the opportunity to speak on behalf of Scottish Liberal Democrats this afternoon. We will support the motion and the Labour amendment, but we will n...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
There were four campaigns during the pilot, with 4 million views on pay television and a radio podcast. People in my town received an A3 fold-out print. Ther...
Beatrice Wishart LD
The RMT briefing states that it believes that the methodology that the Scottish Government used to evaluate the trial did not look at demand at peak time, wh...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. Back benchers’ speeches should be of up to four minutes. There is no time in hand. 16:29
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Despite his authoritarian misrule, Benito Mussolini is credited with making Italy’s trains run on time. In fact, a look back in time reveals that he did not,...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee City West) (SNP) SNP
Shameful!
Craig Hoy Con
—smiling for photographers when she proudly opened East Linton station, which has been warmly welcomed and is much needed by the community.