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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 11 September 2024

11 Sep 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Free School Meals (Primary Pupils)

Marcus Rashford made a big impact on this whole debate in 2020 and before that. He has left a lasting legacy that has been credited, quite rightly, across the United Kingdom. At that point, the SNP was a victim of its own spin and approach to politics. It is now still a victim as a result.

At the time, John Swinney sought to exploit that campaign and to draw a difference between the Conservative Government at Westminster and the Scottish Government. He said that hunger “doesn’t take a holiday” and that every child, every minute and every school day are incredibly important for learning. He committed the SNP to delivering that promise by August 2022—two years ago—but it is clear that the SNP did not have a costed plan. It was evident from almost the point that the SNP agreed that commitment and put it in its manifesto that it was retreating from it.

Initially, the SNP blamed local authorities for being unable to deliver the commitment in 2022, then it blamed the Westminster Government, and now it is blaming the Labour Government, even though it has been in power for only a few weeks, as opposed to the 17 years for which the SNP has been in government. The SNP hunted around almost from the very beginning for an explanation and an excuse for its failure to deliver the solemn promise that it put in its manifesto in 2021.

It was clear at that point that the SNP refused to accept that there was a looming financial crisis at the heart of the Scottish Government, which successive finance committees and the Scottish Fiscal Commission have been telling us about for years, and it made endless promises, jumping on the headlines that had been created—quite rightly—by Marcus Rashford, but doing so without having a costed plan. I have no problem with the Government meeting the needs and desires of the electorate, but it must be honest and straightforward from the very beginning, rather than using such promises as election gimmicks.

Today, the education secretary has challenged us to say where we would find the money. If she had been at last week’s meeting of the Education, Children and Young People Committee, she would know the answer to that, because Graeme Dey knows exactly where all the money is. Apparently, he has worked it all out. He made an agreement with the college unions across the country, and he told us that he did not have a clue where the finance was going to come from. I suspect that he knows everything about the finances of the Scottish Government and that he has the money tucked up his sleeve. Therefore, all that the education secretary needs to do is to reach over to Graeme Dey, who will have the answer to everything.

We will take no lectures from the SNP about the need to say where we would find the money, because it plays that trick against the Opposition every single time. The Government knows the finances back to front. If it did not, why did the SNP make that promise in 2021? Surely it would have had a costed plan that was worked out over the years. Surely it would have known that the Conservatives were going to have austerity for years and that the successive Labour Government was going to be dreadful. Surely it had worked all that out before it made that promise. However, we know that it had not, because it has played fast and loose with Scotland’s public finances by making endless promises that it simply cannot keep.

Today, the education secretary faces a challenge, because it is clear from what my colleague Ross Greer said, and from what Conservative and Labour members and I have said, that all of us will vote against the Government’s amendment, so she will lose. She must decide how she will respond to the will of Parliament, because the will of Parliament is incredibly important, as we have heard from her bosses—previous First Ministers—over many years. We would expect the Government to make a statement on how it will meet that promise—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-14406, in the name of Liam Kerr, on free school meals for all primary pupils. I invite members who wish t...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
How times change. Do members remember the then First Minister promising in 2015 to completely close the attainment gap? Now, this Government simply aspires t...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Made a request to intervene.
Liam Kerr Con
I will take Monica Lennon’s intervention later. Last week, John Swinney confirmed in this Parliament that he was scrapping the SNP’s pledge to introduce uni...
Monica Lennon Lab
I welcome Liam Kerr’s motion and hope that the whole Parliament will back it today. All primary school pupils in Wales and in London have free school meals b...
Liam Kerr Con
I absolutely agree with that—it is a good point well made. The amendment is as predictable as it is shameful and, indeed, ignorant. On 5 September, in this ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Jenny Gilruth to speak to and move amendment S6M-14406.3. 15:04
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
Last night, I met the world schools debating champions at Bute house. Team Scotland was represented by Portobello high school, St Columba’s high school from ...
Liam Kerr Con
I share the cabinet secretary’s deep disappointment in the Scottish Government’s decisions, but can she help us to understand what representations she made t...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I made strong representations to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government. If the member is interested, he can speak to her directly about that...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Pam Duncan-Glancy is attempting to make an intervention. I am conscious of time, and I would like to make progress, but I am going to name Pam Duncan-Glancy,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude, cabinet secretary.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
The reality is that austerity is a political choice. It matters not one iota whether it is red or blue. The result is less money for Scotland, less money for...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open on behalf of Scottish Labour in the debate and to speak in support of the motion and the amendment in my name. I have said this before,...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will Pam Duncan-Glancy give way?
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I am sorry, I do not have time. Young people from the most disadvantaged backgrounds are five times more likely to be unemployed. Those are not just numbers...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I should start by thanking the Conservatives, not just for using some of their time this afternoon to debate free school meals, but because the topics of the...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Marcus Rashford made a big impact on this whole debate in 2020 and before that. He has left a lasting legacy that has been credited, quite rightly, across th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Willie Rennie LD
It is not only our promise; it is the Government’s promise, and it is for the Government to deliver it. We deserve an answer from the Government today.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 15:23
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I declare an interest in that my eldest daughter is a teacher. She is head of guidance as well as being a physical education teacher. When I came into Parli...
Jackie Dunbar (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Brian Whittle Con
I am afraid that I do not have time. Ploughing that furrow simply digs a deeper and deeper hole for our educators, heaping ever more responsibility on to ou...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
I find myself back on the back benches, freed from the shackles of Government, able to say what I really mean and what I really want to say. However, you are...
Foysol Choudhury (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
In 2021, the First Minister, then Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills, said that free school meals were a landmark policy. Successive First Ministers ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills said that she wanted some context and to engage with the Opposition. Like Willie Rennie, I will take her back ...
Evelyn Tweed (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Liz Smith Con
I will, in a minute. I presume that that is why the SNP made the manifesto commitment that it did in 2021. It made that promise, which we are debating this ...