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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 11 September 2024

11 Sep 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Free School Meals (Primary Pupils)
Gilruth, Jenny SNP Mid Fife and Glenrothes Watch on SPTV

Pam Duncan-Glancy is attempting to make an intervention. I am conscious of time, and I would like to make progress, but I am going to name Pam Duncan-Glancy, because she has reassured me over Twitter that the cavalry is en route. However, I cannot accept a tweet from Ms Duncan-Glancy as confirmation of the extent of the consequentials that Scotland will receive from London. Those who hold the purse strings have offered me no such confirmation.

Liam Kerr quoted the Scottish Fiscal Commission. It has noted that there is “significant uncertainty” on the level of funding that we will receive from the UK Government ahead of the UK Government’s budget on 30 October. I would welcome confirmation today from any Labour MSP in the chamber on the totality of consequentials that they expect to flow to Scotland from the new UK Labour Government.

As I referenced earlier, we know that the combined capital and revenue costs of universal expansion will total £256 million. My question to Parliament, and particularly to the Labour Party, is simple: where would you find the money? Like its friends in the Conservative Party, the Labour Party has opposed just about every revenue-raising measure that the Government has put in place. Just like the Tories, Labour seek to slash taxes on higher earners, leaving us with less money to invest in our public services.

What is the answer? If members want to commit to the immediate universal expansion in primary schools, which the Scottish Futures Trust’s independent research estimates will cost £256 million, what £256 million of cuts would they make? Would they make cuts elsewhere in our schools, such as to additional support needs provision, the school clothing grant or the Scottish attainment challenge? Would Labour stop funding to the eight new schools that are being built? Would it make cuts elsewhere? Would it make cuts to the national health service, childcare or the Scottish child payment, or would it do what it has been desperate to do since 2007 and reimpose tuition fees on Scottish students?

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-14406, in the name of Liam Kerr, on free school meals for all primary pupils. I invite members who wish t...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
How times change. Do members remember the then First Minister promising in 2015 to completely close the attainment gap? Now, this Government simply aspires t...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Made a request to intervene.
Liam Kerr Con
I will take Monica Lennon’s intervention later. Last week, John Swinney confirmed in this Parliament that he was scrapping the SNP’s pledge to introduce uni...
Monica Lennon Lab
I welcome Liam Kerr’s motion and hope that the whole Parliament will back it today. All primary school pupils in Wales and in London have free school meals b...
Liam Kerr Con
I absolutely agree with that—it is a good point well made. The amendment is as predictable as it is shameful and, indeed, ignorant. On 5 September, in this ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Jenny Gilruth to speak to and move amendment S6M-14406.3. 15:04
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
Last night, I met the world schools debating champions at Bute house. Team Scotland was represented by Portobello high school, St Columba’s high school from ...
Liam Kerr Con
I share the cabinet secretary’s deep disappointment in the Scottish Government’s decisions, but can she help us to understand what representations she made t...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I made strong representations to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government. If the member is interested, he can speak to her directly about that...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Pam Duncan-Glancy is attempting to make an intervention. I am conscious of time, and I would like to make progress, but I am going to name Pam Duncan-Glancy,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude, cabinet secretary.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
The reality is that austerity is a political choice. It matters not one iota whether it is red or blue. The result is less money for Scotland, less money for...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open on behalf of Scottish Labour in the debate and to speak in support of the motion and the amendment in my name. I have said this before,...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will Pam Duncan-Glancy give way?
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I am sorry, I do not have time. Young people from the most disadvantaged backgrounds are five times more likely to be unemployed. Those are not just numbers...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I should start by thanking the Conservatives, not just for using some of their time this afternoon to debate free school meals, but because the topics of the...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Marcus Rashford made a big impact on this whole debate in 2020 and before that. He has left a lasting legacy that has been credited, quite rightly, across th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Willie Rennie LD
It is not only our promise; it is the Government’s promise, and it is for the Government to deliver it. We deserve an answer from the Government today.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 15:23
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I declare an interest in that my eldest daughter is a teacher. She is head of guidance as well as being a physical education teacher. When I came into Parli...
Jackie Dunbar (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Brian Whittle Con
I am afraid that I do not have time. Ploughing that furrow simply digs a deeper and deeper hole for our educators, heaping ever more responsibility on to ou...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
I find myself back on the back benches, freed from the shackles of Government, able to say what I really mean and what I really want to say. However, you are...
Foysol Choudhury (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
In 2021, the First Minister, then Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills, said that free school meals were a landmark policy. Successive First Ministers ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills said that she wanted some context and to engage with the Opposition. Like Willie Rennie, I will take her back ...
Evelyn Tweed (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Liz Smith Con
I will, in a minute. I presume that that is why the SNP made the manifesto commitment that it did in 2021. It made that promise, which we are debating this ...