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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 April 2024

18 Apr 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Again, I understand where Mark Griffin is coming from, but the point is that we need to undertake—with cross-party support, as we have done with every other benefit—a safe and secure transfer. We have not looked at changing the rules and regulations on a benefit until everyone who should be is in receipt of it and all cases are being administrated from Scotland. My understanding—unless the cabinet secretary is going to correct me—is that that is what the Government wants to do in this instance. It will, therefore, be at least two to three years before we are in a place to be able to do that.

As I said, even if the timing had been perfect, I am afraid that I am not convinced that such a council is the best way forward. Devolution of social security was meant to be an opportunity to put in place a radically different social security system that addressed the unique landscape in Scotland. We had an opportunity to create a system that would look exactly as we wanted it to look. Instead, the Government took the view that we would have a carbon copy of the DWP in every way but delivery, which has been less than smooth.

I admit that the reality is that there have been limits to the extent to which we could have deviated from the previous system, but it is clear that the Scottish Government has in no way tried to make any meaningful changes, and that it will not make meaningful changes during this parliamentary session. In hiding behind the façade of a safe and secure transition, it has abdicated the responsibility for which it fought so hard.

This could be an opportunity to make a difference. There could be ways other than a council to support administration of EIA that could represent better value for money, as well as fulfilling people’s needs better. It will be no surprise to members to hear that Conservatives are generally sceptical about the creation of new levels of bureaucracy when there are other possible solutions. I would like to see more innovation from the Government, and that adds to the case that is being made against the bill.

As members will be aware, the Social Justice and Social Security Committee has called on the Government to publish a consultation on employment injuries. The work that Mr Griffin has done has shed light on the fact that we must make faster progress on the issue. We were unable to get a straight answer on the timing of the Government’s plans for a consultation. In the cabinet secretary’s opening remarks, she said that it would be in a number of weeks. Could she add to that in her closing speech, or even now?

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12882, in the name of Mark Griffin, on the Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill at stage 1....
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I make a voluntary declaration of interests as a member of the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers and Unite. I am absolutely delighted to speak ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
There is a lot of agreement with what Mark Griffin says, in that we should be dealing with some of those issues, but am I right in saying that his bill does ...
Mark Griffin Lab
The bill would establish a council that would get the workers who are impacted by illnesses and injuries around the table to design the benefit. The budget t...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We have heard across the chamber throughout this session—indeed, at last—that we recognise the importance of the lived experience of people feeding into the ...
Mark Griffin Lab
Absolutely. It seems strange that we have a current UK industrial injuries system with a UK advisory council with medical experts, trade unionists and peopl...
John Mason SNP
Will the member give way?
Mark Griffin Lab
I am sorry, but I think that I am in my last minute. I would be happy to take another intervention in my closing speech. The time for action is now. The bil...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
I thank Mark Griffin for his on-going commitment to people who have experienced an industrial injury or occupational disease, which is evidenced by the intro...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary has just set out that the Government agrees with the principles that Mark Griffin has articulated. Given that stage 1 of the process is...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I agree with the principles underlying why Mark Griffin is introducing the bill, and I say the following with the greatest genuine respect to Mr Griffin, wit...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary says that it is more sensible to wait. Does she not realise that, for many people with life-limiting and debilitating conditions, whose...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Cabinet secretary, I can give you time back for interventions.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I appreciate that. I understand why there is frustration and impatience, but that is why I wish to be able to introduce the co...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention on that point?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
If I have time, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Very briefly, Miles Briggs.
Miles Briggs Con
What will be the make-up of that advisory group?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I would be obliged if you would start winding up now, cabinet secretary.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Certainly, Presiding Officer. I am happy to respond to Miles Briggs’s question in my closing remarks, but the group would particularly include people with l...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
There have been a number of interventions already. I would be grateful if, as well as asking for an intervention in the normal way, members would press their...
Collette Stevenson (East Kilbride) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to contribute to the debate on behalf of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. I thank everyone who sent submissions in response to ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate. As a member of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, I have, over the past number of mo...
Mark Griffin Lab
The point has been made about timing. We are at the stage 1 debate; we still have stage 2, stage 3, royal assent and commencement to go. We are nowhere near ...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Again, I understand where Mark Griffin is coming from, but the point is that we need to undertake—with cross-party support, as we have done with every other ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Briefly, cabinet secretary.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I am happy to confirm that I wished to wait to see what would happen today because, quite frankly, there would have been no point in going through a consulta...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Wind up, please.
Jeremy Balfour Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for that. As I said at the outset, Mr Griffin and his team have undertaken a lot of good work to get his bill to this point. H...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open on behalf of Scottish Labour in this stage 1 debate, and I am pleased to support the general principles of my colleague Mark Griffin’s b...