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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 30 April 2024

30 Apr 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests as I am a practising national health service general practitioner.

It is important to stress the fact that we are not considering whether abortion services should be legal, nor are we proposing to change Scotland’s abortion law. We are talking about women’s access to healthcare. As a male doctor, I will obviously never undergo an abortion. Abortion services cater primarily to women’s reproductive health needs, and I cannot overstate the importance of respecting women’s autonomy and prioritising women’s access to safe and confidential care. That means that we should ensure that women can receive the medical care that they require without facing barriers such as harassment outside clinics.

In terms of general principles, to protect women from intimidation and potential emotional distress caused by protesters outside these facilities, I support the principle of the buffer zones. By safeguarding access to abortion services, we are upholding women’s reproductive rights and ensuring that women can make informed decisions about their healthcare without undue interference or pressure.

It is well documented why Parliament is considering the legislation—that is evident simply from hearing members’ comments today. Protests can intimidate women seeking a whole range of services at such clinics, many of which provide sexual health support, HIV testing and contraception. Protests impact our NHS staff working in the centres, who are forced to pass what amounts to an accusatory picket line at the start and end of each working day.

We have heard arguments that safe access zones would impinge on the right to freedom of speech or freedom to protest. For sure, people might have personally held views, but that does not mean that they have a right in every case to deprive others of their rights. That said, I defend the right of patient groups to demonstrate peacefully outside a hospital—for example, on the closure of services or if there were patient safety issues, such as in the case of NHS Tayside’s Professor Eljamel. I would also not seek to restrict the right of trade unions to protest. However, given that, during evidence at the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, the police told us that that might happen as an unintended consequence, I seek reassurance that that is clear in the bill.

Protecting the privacy and wellbeing of women accessing abortion services is at the heart of the proposed legislation. However, I do not think that the bill is quite ready. The proposed 200m safe access zones outside 30 hospitals and clinics across Scotland should deal with the real problem of harassment and intimidation, but we need to ensure that the bill is workable and avoids unintended consequences.

Take prayer vigils. Are we asking the police to determine whether the law is breached by a bystander who might be engaged in silent prayer? Are we criminalising thought? We must be clear how we police this, given that, during evidence at the committee, the police were clear that they would not ask somebody why they were at a buffer zone, and they clearly said that they were not the thought police.

We need to consider residential and business premises and places of worship that are within 200m of a clinic. No one is penalised for displaying in their window a flag or a poster of their favourite football team or political party, even if some people find that antagonistic. So, where is the line?

I am primarily concerned with defending women’s rights to safe healthcare and with protecting NHS staff. That is why I support the principles of the bill. However, as we take the bill forward, let us work together on the details so that we deliver good law.

15:37  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-13015, in the name of Gillian Mackay, on the Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill at sta...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the general principles of the Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Health, Social ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am grateful to Gillian Mackay for giving way and I thank her for her leadership on this very important and excellent bill. Ms Mackay was kind enough to mee...
Gillian Mackay Green
I will come to some of the things that Mr Cole-Hamilton and I discussed shortly. As, I hope, the chamber will understand, much of the report’s detail is st...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I apologise to Gillian Mackay for not being able to speak to her ahead of making this intervention. The stage 1 report was fascinating, and Ms Mackay has my ...
Gillian Mackay Green
Absolutely. I reassure Mr Doris that the number of sites that are currently protected represents those that are designated under the Abortion Act 1967. Any o...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Clare Haughey to speak on behalf of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. 14:47
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests in that I hold a bank nurse contract with NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. As convener of th...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Does the member think that the police will be able to put such an exemption into practice with regard to what is silent prayer and what is somebody simply re...
Clare Haughey SNP
Mr Mason’s point reflects some of the discussions that the committee had and some of the evidence that we received, regarding silent prayer, both from people...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
I advise members that we are very tight for time this afternoon, so members will have to accommodate any interventions in their speaking time allocations. ...
The Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health (Jenni Minto) SNP
It is my privilege to support the bill. I thank the committee for its consideration. The bill raises important issues and I appreciate its thorough and thoug...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
On the same topic that I raised with Gillian Mackay, which was the potential reduction of the size of the buffer zones, does the minister recognise that thos...
Jenni Minto SNP
I recognise what Mr Cole-Hamilton says, and I am happy to have further discussions with him on that. Today, because it is a source of particular concern fo...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
How will we police that?
Jenni Minto SNP
If Mr Gulhane will allow me, I am just coming on to that in my speech. I can whole-heartedly say that that is not the case, because, again, only the impact ...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the opportunity to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. For the past few weeks, my inbox has been full of letters from constit...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) SNP
Does Meghan Gallacher agree that women have been silently judged for hundreds of years in going about their daily life? The bill will seek to address that in...
Meghan Gallacher Con
Good points are raised by Elena Whitham. For me, it is about ensuring that women have safe access to those clinics. That is the fundamental principle of the ...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
In opening the debate for Scottish Labour, I thank the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee for producing its stage 1 report, the clerks for assisting the...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
On behalf of the Green Party group, I congratulate our colleague and friend Gillian Mackay on introducing the bill to the Parliament, and I congratulate all ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I congratulate Ms Mackay on her leadership on the subject—as I did in my intervention. I also thank action groups such as Back Off Scotland and other stakeho...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We now move to the open debate. 15:27
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
This is a very important debate, and I thank Gillian Mackay for all her work, as well as her office, her bill team and the Health, Social Care and Sport Comm...
Gillian Mackay Green
Will Rona Mackay reflect on the fact that, because of how healthcare is delivered in Scotland, a whole load more services are affected by protests in Scotlan...
Rona Mackay SNP
I completely agree with that. The unintended consequences of the protests are off the scale. The view reflected that of many individuals and organisations t...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests as I am a practising national health service general practitioner. It is importa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Deputy Presiding Officer, I thank you for the opportunity to speak. For once, I mean that. I realise that my views and those of the people for whom I speak t...
Elena Whitham SNP
Will John Mason give way?
John Mason SNP
Let me just finish this point. I hope that it is possible to discuss the subject and bill in a calm and reasoned way, even though I accept that just discuss...