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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 19 June 2024

19 Jun 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Growing the Economy
Johnson, Daniel Lab Edinburgh Southern Watch on SPTV

I agree with the broad sentiment. I suspect that there might be some points of disagreement implied, but I will acknowledge two things. First, transition is a necessity. We have 10 per cent of the extractable resource left in the ground, so, whatever we do, we need to transition. Secondly, critically, if we are to realise some of our strategic potential in floating offshore wind and carbon capture and storage, the expertise and engineering that are required will come from the oil and gas sector, because those are the people who know how to do that stuff. I absolutely agree that we cannot have a cliff edge. We need those jobs, skills and assets, so the transition must be a partnership between the Government and the people who have that expertise.

I will make some progress. I have outlined why growth matters, and I go back to the point about eradicating poverty and improving equality. I know that my colleagues Alex Rowley and Foysol Choudhury will continue on how we can expand opportunity and how growth should be used to expand opportunities for all.

In relation to our amendment, if we are to realise those opportunities, we need to understand our headwinds. What are the risks and threats? I fear that, sometimes, when the Government approaches such topics, it wants to circumvent that aspect. We have already had a little bit of that. The Government is very keen to highlight figures or metrics that show where it has succeeded, but it is fairly unwilling to look at either the broader context or the metrics that point in the opposite direction.

That is why I come back to GDP per head. The simple fact is that, in the first decade of this new millennium, the gap in GDP per head between the UK and Scotland shrank from about 10 per cent to about 5 per cent, but, in the subsequent decade, it has increased. Whatever other metrics one wants to use, that is the fundamental one that we must focus on, because that is a loss of opportunity and a loss of earning potential for people. Let us start with that.

We must also recognise that it is a lack of investment that is holding this country back. Again, the headline figures often obscure this, but, up until the previous quarter, we had seven quarters of decline using that same metric across the UK. The reason for that was poor levels of investment. We also need to look at factors such as entrepreneurial activity, because Scotland lacks entrepreneurial activity and company creation.

Most critically, we have unequal growth. The reality is that the vast bulk of growth in Scotland is generated from Scotland’s south-east. The output per hour worked in Edinburgh and the Lothians is 50 per cent higher than it is in other parts of Scotland, such as the west and Tayside. Why is that? I suggest that we look at those issues. What are the structural barriers? Where are the regional economic development strategies that should enable people to link up the opportunities that exist in other parts of Scotland with their potential, skills and talents and the places where they live?

How much more time do I have, Deputy Presiding Officer?

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-13679, in the name of Kate Forbes, on Scottish Government priorities: growing the economy. I call on the ...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes) SNP
When I took up the role of Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic—six weeks ago, I believe, although the election has distracted ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Kate Forbes is correct to say that, but why did the Scottish Government feel the need to cut the budget for the university and college sector, which is instr...
Kate Forbes SNP
Liz Smith is right that the college and university sector is critical; I am about to talk about education and skills. She will recall that our public finance...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Kate Forbes SNP
Why not?
Murdo Fraser Con
At the launch of the Scottish National Party manifesto this morning—which, I believe, the Deputy First Minister attended—I was intrigued to see that the SNP ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I will take the opportunity, at this early stage in proceedings, to remind members that the debate is about matters for which Parliament has responsibility. ...
Kate Forbes SNP
I am sure, having shared multiple platforms with Mr Fraser in various hustings around the country, that I will shortly have the opportunity to answer his que...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) SNP
I am most grateful to the Deputy First Minister for giving way. Does she agree that economic growth is not all about more money and more cash—it is also abo...
Kate Forbes SNP
I agree that we need to ensure that Scotland is a great place to do business. I will perhaps come on to that in the limited time that I have available. For ...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Kate Forbes SNP
Do I have time?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is a bit of time in hand.
Paul Sweeney Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for giving way. She raised an important issue about the growth and scaling of firms in Scotland. One of the concerns that has o...
Kate Forbes SNP
Paul Sweeney has put his finger on it when it comes to our ambition for Scottish start-ups. In supporting companies to start up and then scale up, we do not ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
As the Deputy First Minister fairly said, she and I, as well as Mr Johnson and others, have been doing the rounds with various debates during the course of t...
Kate Forbes SNP
Who would the member say has been responsible for Scotland outperforming the rest of the UK economically in recent times?
Murdo Fraser Con
The Deputy First Minister needs to look at the wider picture, because, since 2014, the Scottish economy has grown, on average, at half the rate at which the ...
Fergus Ewing SNP
Would Murdo Fraser agree that, as far as the development of renewables in the UK is concerned, which both Governments and all parties agree is a huge opportu...
Murdo Fraser Con
Mr Ewing makes an important point. I do not like making off-the-cuff responses to ideas that I have not heard before, but I think that he identifies correctl...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) SNP
I hear what Murdo Fraser says. However, does he congratulate the Scottish Government on the fact that the majority of people in Scotland pay less in income t...
Murdo Fraser Con
The benefit with regard to income tax is a few pennies a week and it makes no substantial difference to people’s household incomes. Anybody who earns more th...
Paul Sweeney Lab
Will the member give way on that point?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The member is bringing his remarks to a close.
Murdo Fraser Con
I apologise for being unable to take the intervention. Our ambition, which is set out in our amendment, is to keep taxes in Scotland competitive with those ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I will start by approaching the debate very much in the spirit that the Government is offering—the economy is too important to be discussed only in the narro...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I must say that I agree with the principles behind what Mr Johnson has said. Does he agree that, to achieve that growth in renewables, it is essential that w...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I agree with the broad sentiment. I suspect that there might be some points of disagreement implied, but I will acknowledge two things. First, transition is ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can be relatively generous.