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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 13 June 2024

13 Jun 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Kindergarten Stage
MacGregor, Fulton SNP Coatbridge and Chryston Watch on SPTV

I completely agree with the member: Diane Delaney, who is a constituent of both hers and mine, is certainly that.

At its most basic level, a kindergarten stage is a stage whereby the emphasis of a child’s education is more on opportunities for children to play. It is a way for children to learn through enjoyable experiences rather than formal teaching. It is underpinned by the development of social and communication skills, teacher-led opportunities for art, drama, music, science or maths investigations and listening to stories.

The benefits of such a stage are self-evident. Physically, it promotes physical self-confidence and bodily control. Mentally, it allows children’s creativity to flourish, as well as helping to develop self-control and problem solving. Socially, it provides a perfect opportunity for children to progress their interpersonal skills, such as communication, empathy and teamwork. Cognitively, play-based learning can improve a child’s innate understanding of mathematical and scientific concepts.

A kindergarten stage would not be free time for the children to do as they please; rather, it would be an educational approach that supports not just their academic development but their all-round physical, emotional, social and cognitive development.

Another key component of that play-based approach is access to the outdoors and increased contact with the natural world. Today, fewer of our children spend time outdoors. It is no surprise that they often stay inside instead and are more likely to be watching television or engaging with our ever-increasing digital world. Anybody who is a parent—as I am—knows exactly what that looks like. With outdoor play being such an important part of kindergartens globally, a kindergarten stage could give all Scottish children time and space to develop the habits of outdoor play, which promote mental and physical health and wellbeing.

For those who fear that focusing on those aspects will inhibit academic achievement, a large body of research has found the opposite to be the case. In fact, promoting physical, emotional, social and cognitive development has been shown to promote and complement academic achievement. In essence, a kindergarten stage, rather than throwing children in at the deep end when they are just four or five years old, can give children the tools to cope with the rigours of academic stresses.

I have spoken a lot about the hypothetical benefits, but I will present some facts. It might be a surprise to some to learn that, ever since the programme for international student assessment—PISA—comparisons began, countries with an early school starting age have not performed as well as those in which formal education starts later. In 66 per cent of countries worldwide, children start school at age six; in 22 per cent, they start at age seven; and in only 12 per cent do they start at age four or five. Last year, the best-performing countries were China, Singapore, Estonia, Japan, South Korea, Canada, Taiwan, Finland, Poland and Ireland. Four of those—China, Estonia, Finland and Poland—have a school starting age of seven. In the rest, children start school at six. None starts them at five.

UNICEF surveys of children’s wellbeing have continually shown a correlation between countries with later school starting ages and improvements in children’s wellbeing.

In the campaign to foster a discussion on a kindergarten stage in Scotland, particular credit must lie with Upstart Scotland, which has representatives joining us in the gallery this afternoon—I am not sure whether they are in yet. Upstart Scotland has made it its mission to promote and advocate for a kindergarten stage to be introduced in Scotland. Its website is full of invaluable information, academic sources and holistic discourse that support the advancement of that play-based stage being considered in Scotland. I think that Upstart Scotland representatives are coming into the gallery now.

The conversation about the topic is growing. Last month, I hosted a round-table meeting that brought together Scottish education stakeholders and a group of Norwegian kindergarten practitioners. That meeting concentrated on a discussion about the different education systems of Norway and Scotland, with a particular focus on the Norwegian kindergarten system. Those Norwegian kindergarten staff work in a small private kindergarten with 20 children. Their focus areas were farming, food production and outdoor living, as well as other areas of learning. It was eye opening to learn how beneficial that opportunity is for the Norwegian children, especially in showing how that stage empowers children in so many ways at such an early age.

Most strikingly perhaps is the evidence that a later formal school setting can help to close the attainment gap. We know that a key goal of the Scottish Government is to close the poverty-related attainment gap. It would be presumptuous to assume that changing educational policy alone could close that gap, but a play-based stage for all across Scotland has the power to level the playing field and provide children from impoverished backgrounds with the similar experiences and support that those in more advantaged circumstances are provided with.

To put it bluntly, when children are expected to make the transition from a nursery setting to a formal school environment with an emphasis on literacy and numeracy at a time when they are only halfway through their early years, disadvantaged children are put at an even further disadvantage as they must catch up in the areas of problem solving and language development.

I know that some schools take a play-based approach in primary 1—the minister might come to that. For example, the school that my children go to does that now. It did not do that for my oldest child, but it does for my middle child. The point is that the approach is not consistent enough even within local authority areas, never mind across the country.

There would, of course, be challenges in adopting the approach. Our current system of early years learning and our nursery sector would have to be revisited. There would be the obvious question of how we would deliver the additional training required for new and existing early years staff. There have been encouraging developments on that with Play Scotland’s work with the Scottish Qualifications Authority on a play pedagogy qualification, which has just been recognised with accredited status. Any national discussion must include an assessment of training needs and the identification of where training will come from and who will deliver it, along with a costed programme for implementation.

Likewise, our current mix of local authority provision, private, voluntary and independent childcare and the primary 1 and 2 years would have to be co-ordinated to deliver the kindergarten stage, which would require to be financed. I do not deny that that will be a challenge, but I firmly believe that it is one well worth taking on. I do not have the time today to provide a forensic examination of the costs, but this is only the beginning of a discussion.

Scotland is still set in its Victorian approach to formal learning. Although the discussion is at an early stage, we must seriously consider the range of benefits that introducing a kindergarten stage could bring to our children. I can understand why some may have reservations, but that is not a new idea. Countries that have introduced such a stage have seen hugely improved and well-rounded development for their children. I will continue advocating on the topic and encourage all parties to dedicate time to researching the potential value of having kindergartens in Scotland.

I again thank Upstart Scotland and the numerous other stakeholders that have diligently and convincingly set out the arguments to modernise the Scottish education system and to bring us into line with our European neighbours.

I will close with an abridged quote from Sue Palmer, Upstart’s honorary president:

“No child should be in school at the age of five ... The poverty-related attainment gap is at root a developmental issue. By starting formal teaching too soon, we consolidate this gap. Too-early introduction to formal learning generates anxiety which can affect one's mental health for life.”

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-12369, in the name of Fulton MacGregor, on fostering a discussion on a kindergarten sta...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
First, I thank all members who have supported my motion, which calls for a discussion on a kindergarten stage in Scotland. I pay particular thanks to my coll...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I echo everything that Fulton MacGregor has just said. Does he agree with me that Diane Delaney is an absolute trailblazer when it comes to campaigning and h...
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I completely agree with the member: Diane Delaney, who is a constituent of both hers and mine, is certainly that. At its most basic level, a kindergarten st...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr MacGregor, I have been very generous, but you are now at almost 10 minutes. Please complete your speech.
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I will leave it there, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Mr MacGregor. My clock is at nine minutes and 52 seconds. The chamber one was not switched on, in error. We now move to the open debate. I urge m...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak in the debate and I thank Fulton MacGregor for bringing it to the chamber. I am particularly keen to see a wider debate about whether t...
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank Fulton MacGregor for lodging the motion for debate in the chamber and for continuing the work of Kaukab Stewart. I will quickly mention my respect fo...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to take part in what is perhaps one of the more fascinating members’ business debates. Along with others, I thank Fulton MacGregor for bring...
Fulton MacGregor SNP
This point is for Martin Whitfield as well as for Bob Doris. Does he accept that it is not just about whether a child is ready for school? Both my children w...
Martin Whitfield Lab
I am very grateful for that intervention, which speaks to the heart of what I am going to talk about. The way to look at this is to look at the young people ...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
As colleagues have done, I congratulate Fulton MacGregor on securing the debate, and I thank Upstart Scotland, Give Them Time and everyone else who has long ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Our guests in the gallery are very welcome and I am glad that you made it for part of the debate, but we do not invite gallery guests to clap during our proc...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I was not intending to say anything in this debate, but members have made very thought-provoking contributions. I have to say that I am a stickler when it co...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Natalie Don to respond to the debate. You have up to seven minutes, minister. 13:23
The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don) SNP
I am thankful to Fulton MacGregor for bringing this debate to the chamber, and I truly welcome the many excellent contributions that we have had from members...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That concludes the debate. I suspend the meeting until 2 pm. 13:31 Meeting suspended. 14:00 On resuming—