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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 29 February 2024

29 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I thank the clerks and members for their participation in the process. The establishment of a national care service gives the Parliament the chance to be bold, ambitious and innovative. Members should take seriously that opportunity and the responsibility that comes with it, and act in a way that our constituents would expect: that is, to read the report, act with conscience and truly decide whether the bill should progress to the next stage.

I am extremely disappointed by the Government’s approach to the progression of social care—and definitely by its approach to the progression of the national care service. I am disappointed in its unwillingness to co-operate and its inability to work with people to enhance what is a crucial piece of legislation. The minister’s contribution at the start of the debate is not based on the reality of the past 10 years.

When it was clear that the bill was not ready to proceed—a view that I am sure was held by many SNP members on the committee—the Scottish Government pushed those members to carry on and progress the bill. Again, last night, it pushed its members to vote against a sensible proposal to refer the bill back to the committee. The contribution from Ivan McKee shows that some people on the committee are considering the points in hand. If the bill moves to stage 2, I hope that we can work together. I mean that genuinely.

The opportunity to improve the bill—to extend stage 1 and to take more time—was made available to the committee by Labour members. The report confirms that. However, sadly, the SNP and Green members did not take that opportunity. The report that they pushed through includes a Scottish Government and COSLA deal that was not properly scrutinised, agrees general principles that have changed significantly from those that were originally set out, and is absolutely laden with requests for more evidence and further information. Anyone who reads the report will see that.

Suggestions that the report, or the evidence in it, portrays a positive outlook on the Government’s approach is absolutely absurd. Trade unions, third sector organisations, carers and those who receive care came to committee, and to members individually, to express serious concerns about the way in which the bill was progressing, its framework nature and the lack of clarity about things that could, ultimately, be done now, but the SNP ignored them and kept pushing on anyway.

Roz Foyer, in speaking about the commissioning service that the bill proposes to set up, said:

“Our fear is that the sort of commissioning system that is being set up will neither address nor take forward fair work and collective bargaining issues in a way that gives us any surety”.—[Official Report, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, 15 November 2022; c 35.]

Indeed, after the Government took many steps that ignored the co-design process, Rachel Cackett of the Coalition of Care and Support Providers in Scotland summed up well the feeling that many hold, when she said:

“there is not, in my view, a great sense that there is a clear connection between what is being heard and what is being delivered through the bill.”—[Official Report, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, 31 October 2023; c 31.]

Those are quotes from the Scottish Trades Union Congress and the CCPS. If the Government is not listening to them, many will be asking who it is actually listening to.

The Government has been irresponsible at a time of critical importance, and it has played games with a crucial bill. Labour has been calling for a national care service for years, because if that is delivered properly, it will deliver the much-needed parity between health and social care, and it will deliver for workers, carers and service users. However, the Scottish Government, if it continues in its current direction, will make that proper and effective delivery highly unlikely. It is certainly not clear in the bill how the Government will deliver on those aims.

The Scottish Government would have the public believe that in order to deliver Anne’s law, for example, we need a national care service, in contrast to the view of those of us who are fighting to improve the bill in order to deliver on its full potential. The Government’s view could not be further from the reality. It is a Government that has a distant relationship with delivery, and which has sat on its hands rather than deliver key policies. Anne’s law could be delivered—I ask the minister to address the question that my colleague Monica Lennon raised and to be clear that the Government will seek to ensure that Anne’s law is considered in other legislation as soon as possible. That would be supported by members on all sides of the chamber.

Throughout the committee process, my colleague Paul Sweeney and I called for an expert advisory board—something that is not uncommon—but the SNP rejected that suggestion. We called on the Government to bring forward its amendments before the conclusion of stage 1 to ensure that proper scrutiny could take place, but that was rejected by the SNP. We called for the bill to be referred back to committee after third sector organisations, trade unions and many other stakeholders said that it was not clear, but that, too, was rejected by the SNP.

Despite the minister’s warm words, the SNP does not seem to be standing up for care in Scotland—in fact, it is standing in the way. As the stage 1 report makes clear, the SNP’s stubborn approach has proved exactly that.

It is with great regret, for the reasons that I have outlined, that I will not support the bill in its current form at stage 1.

16:03  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12331, in the name of Maree Todd, on the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I note that w...
The Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport (Maree Todd) SNP
I thank everyone who has contributed to the consultation on the national care service, our co-design sessions, the annual forums and the many meetings that m...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
As a disabled person and a user of social care, and as someone who gets a lot of representations on the subject in my inbox, as many of us do, I have to say ...
Maree Todd SNP
I agree that people have waited a great deal of time for this change, but let me assure the member and the public that change is coming. Over the past 10 yea...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will the minister take an intervention on that point?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The minister is about to conclude.
Maree Todd SNP
The experts are the people who use community health and social care, as well as unpaid carers and the staff who provide the care. I repeat that the status q...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Clare Haughey to speak on behalf of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. 15:03
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, which shows that I hold a bank staff nurse contract with NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. I...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am glad that Clare Haughey mentioned Anne’s law, and I welcome the report’s recommendations. I note that the committee agreed that Anne’s law should be ful...
Clare Haughey SNP
The committee considered the bill in its entirety, including all the different sections, one of which concerns Anne’s law. The consensus agreement with the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Kenneth Gibson to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. 15:12
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I apologise for missing the first minute of the minister’s opening speech. I also convey my thanks to the Finance and Public A...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, as I am a practising NHS general practitioner. I am also a member of the Parliament’s Heal...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Social care is in crisis right now. Care packages for some of our most vulnerable people are being cut, almost 10,000 people are stuck waiting to receive ass...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Here we are again, debating another iteration of what was, in essence, a line in the SNP’s manifesto in 2021. The election was three years ago, and we are he...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Cole-Hamilton, you must conclude.
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
That is what we should be focusing on today and not this ill-fated bureaucratic waste of time. 15:37
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee who has been present during the entirety of the committee’s scrutiny of the bill and preparation o...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
Does Emma Harper agree that, as part of that, we must also look at self-directed support and how that is delivered across the country? When we look at the na...
Emma Harper SNP
I will come on to self-directed support, but it is part of the complex landscape that needs to be reformed, so that we can make changes and help to support t...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
When a major committee of this Parliament concludes that it is concerned that the Scottish Government has, so far, been unable to articulate and communicate ...
Ivan McKee (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) SNP
I think that everyone agrees on the critical importance of social care. It is a requirement for more and more people in society, and that will continue, due ...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I understand that the member has been asking for the target operating model for some time. Does he think that it is acceptable that it appeared only yesterda...
Ivan McKee SNP
As Jackie Baillie identifies, the committee has been asking for that information for a while, and I am glad that it came out before the debate. To be fair, t...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the clerks and members for their participation in the process. The establishment of a national care service gives the Parliament the chance to be bol...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
The National Care Service (Scotland) Bill offers us the opportunity to build care services that truly reflect our shared values of dignity, fairness and resp...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
What one difference will the bill make to somebody who is in receipt of social care today or tomorrow? What one difference will it make to their life?
Kevin Stewart SNP
It will make a difference through having a care service that is not only fit for today but right for tomorrow. I know that the minister is working with great...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
As a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I echo my colleagues’ thanks to the clerks and those who gave evidence to the committee. There i...