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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 06 June 2024

06 Jun 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Rail Fares

Patrick Harvie makes a reasonable point. As he knows, it was after the Bute house agreement ended that I took the decision, along with colleagues, to extend the pilot even further. The point about permanence and the temporary nature of the pilot will need to be analysed as part of any future decision making.

To date, there has been only a small increase in demand and the vast majority of passengers are existing rail users. By extending the pilot for a further three months to a full year overall, we can better understand its impact in encouraging people to opt for rail and understand its benefits.

This autumn and winter were the most severe since 2015-16, with 11 named storms, so we could consider seasonality issues. We operate in a challenging financial climate and need to secure value for money for the people of Scotland. We have to understand the best way to encourage the use of public transport, which is not just about rail—we have to think about bus, too—and we have to set that £40 million in the wider context.

I reiterate that our commitment to achieving net zero by 2045 is unwavering, and the pilot allows us to look at the effectiveness of such measures. I assure members that Transport Scotland will undertake a final, more robust evaluation, before the pilot ends.

I have heard the calls to continue the policy from members across the Parliament, the rail trade unions and environmental groups. If we can improve on the initial success, I would like to see us provide a solid foundation to demonstrate the success of removing peak fares as a means of encouraging modal shift. I emphasise that we need a significant increase in passenger numbers for the pilot to succeed, and I have asked the rail unions to help in that call. As the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, I must consider the wider context of the cost of £40 million against potential alternatives.

I urge all members to continue to support the policy and, more importantly, to join the rail unions and others in encouraging more work colleagues, family, friends and neighbours to switch to rail for more journeys. The cross-party support that we hear about and have seen in the debate is an important and potential bridge to ensuring that we all work together to improve public transport usage. I encourage everyone to spread the word and use the train if they want the removal of peak fares to continue.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-13270, in the name of Mark Ruskell, on permanently ending peak rail fares on ScotRail. ...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I thank members for signing the motion, and I thank those who have stayed to debate it.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Please resume your seat Mr Ruskell. I ask those leaving the public gallery to do so as quickly and quietly as possible. Mr Ruskell, please resume.
Mark Ruskell Green
They may be running for their trains. Last Wednesday, I was delighted to join passengers on the first train to Leven and Cameron Bridge since 1969. The Cabi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Mark Ruskell talks about investment. Does he or anyone else know what the cost of the off-peak rail fare pilot is or is likely to be? That will be a factor i...
Mark Ruskell Green
John Mason makes a good point. There was an allocation in this year’s budget, but it is, of course, a changing picture. It depends on how many people get bac...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 12:55
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate, and I congratulate Mark Ruskell on securing it. I will keep my contribution brief. The removal of the peak...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I congratulate Mark Ruskell on securing the debate. I was very happy to sign his motion, because I agree with every word of it. The removal of peak fares on...
Graham Simpson Con
I see that Mr Ruskell wants to make an intervention, and I am happy to take it.
Mark Ruskell Green
I am enjoying hearing Graham Simpson’s not just acceptance but enthusiasm for green policies, but I am interested in what his views are on demand management....
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Begin winding up, please.
Graham Simpson Con
I will close by answering that point. My view is that I am more of a carrots man than a sticks man. The kind of proposal that Mark Ruskell has come up wit...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate and to Mark Ruskell for lodging the motion. As an MSP and Scottish Labour’s transport spokesperson, ...
Mark Ruskell Green
I thank Alex Rowley for his mention of the unions. I met the four unions again on Monday. They told me that, from the perspective of workers, the scheme has ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I will give you the time back, Mr Rowley.
Alex Rowley Lab
As well as speaking to rail unions, from speaking to rail workers when using the trains, and from speaking to passengers, it is clear that the policy is posi...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
As other members have done, I thank Mark Ruskell for giving us the opportunity to debate the policy today. I am proud that the Scottish Greens were able to s...
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I remind members of my voluntary register of trade union interests, and I thank Mark Ruskell for bringing this important debate to the chamber. Let me start...
Ross Greer Green
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Richard Leonard quite rightly referred to his entry in the register of members’ interests, which made me realise that...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Mr Greer. That is now on the record. I invite Fiona Hyslop to respond to the debate. 13:20
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
I thank Mark Ruskell for lodging the motion and all members for their contributions. I, too, recognise the role of trade unions in calling for this policy, a...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Does the cabinet secretary agree that, however much information the assessment, or a final report, can currently give us, it will be an assessment only of th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Cabinet secretary, I can give you the time back.
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Patrick Harvie makes a reasonable point. As he knows, it was after the Bute house agreement ended that I took the decision, along with colleagues, to extend ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
That concludes the debate. 13:28 Meeting suspended. 14:00 On resuming—