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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 06 June 2024

06 Jun 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Rail Fares
Ruskell, Mark Green Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

John Mason makes a good point. There was an allocation in this year’s budget, but it is, of course, a changing picture. It depends on how many people get back on to the railways and whether we can see a modal shift.

We know that modal shift takes time. That is an important point in this debate, because it is about changing habits that have formed over a lifetime—a lifetime in which Governments of all shades have prioritised investment in roads and cars over investment in public transport.

Radical interventions in public transport fares clearly make a difference. Nearly 750,000 young people in Scotland now have access to free bus travel, and more than 137 million of those journeys have been made in just over two years. The national entitlement card for bus travel goes further by offering young people 50 per cent off train fares. We are already creating a generation whose first choice is public transport.

Some green shoots of progress are already emerging from the interim evaluation of the off-peak-all-day pilot, which was published earlier this week. Although the picture is yet to fully emerge, the data shows us that 53 per cent of new rail passengers in the pilot period had previously chosen to travel by car. It shows us that a third of existing rail users made at least one additional rail journey that they would ordinarily have made by another travel mode, with two thirds of those journeys normally made by car. If we want to achieve long-term modal shift, we need to give people the security of knowing that peak-time rail fares are gone for good. Only then can commuters start to plan their work and travel options around fixed rail services that are cost competitive with running a private car.

Modal shift is an important objective for the off-peak all-day pilot, but it is not the only reason why securing cheaper and simpler fares matters. Budgets are still tight for many people across Scotland. Although inflation might have levelled out, the cost of living crisis has a long tail, with prices remaining high in many sectors. I hope that John Mason acknowledges that, although the pilot has been important in driving modal shift, it has also been important as a cost of living measure. High rail fares, particularly at peak times, coupled with a complicated pricing structure threaten to make rail an unattractive option in the future. We cannot stand still on this. Rail must continue to grow its passenger demographic, not shrink it.

For those who commute to work at peak times, the cost pressure is even more stark, as I will outline. Before the pilot, someone travelling at peak times between Edinburgh and Glasgow paid £28.90, and someone travelling between Glasgow and Stirling paid £16.10. With the removal of peak-time fares, those prices have been slashed—by half in the case of the Edinburgh to Glasgow route.

Cheaper rail fares will make train travel more attractive to commuters and leisure travellers, and there are early indications from the pilot evaluation that that is having an effect. During the pilot, 78 per cent of new rail passengers chose to get the train because of the pilot. Put simply, they got on board ScotRail because the tickets were cheaper—it is that simple. It cannot be right that it is cheaper, easier and simpler to choose private cars over public transport, so reforming antiquated and unfair structures such as peak-time fares is an important part of the picture.

However, we also need to think bigger. Creating incentives to reduce fares is just one side of the price equation. We cannot secure sustainable funding for transformative green transport solutions through driving up rail passenger numbers alone. We need to be brave and bold, and measures such as congestion charging and workplace parking levies in the cities are needed to get a better balance between private car usage and the use of public transport. We know that the Scottish Government has done initial work on demand management, and I look forward to seeing the final 20 per cent reduction plan. However, we also need councils with strong leadership that can stand with the Scottish Government and drive through measures that will transform our cities for good. We also desperately need to see progress on integrated ticketing, which the Government has often promised but has not yet delivered, and which should go a huge way to improving the passenger experience and delivering more affordable fare packages.

ScotRail’s now being in public ownership is our chance to deliver on a people’s vision for ScotRail—one that makes rail affordable and accessible to as many people as possible and that encourages folks to get out of cars and on to our incredible rail services. Getting rid of peak-time fares is a very important step on that journey.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-13270, in the name of Mark Ruskell, on permanently ending peak rail fares on ScotRail. ...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I thank members for signing the motion, and I thank those who have stayed to debate it.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Please resume your seat Mr Ruskell. I ask those leaving the public gallery to do so as quickly and quietly as possible. Mr Ruskell, please resume.
Mark Ruskell Green
They may be running for their trains. Last Wednesday, I was delighted to join passengers on the first train to Leven and Cameron Bridge since 1969. The Cabi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Mark Ruskell talks about investment. Does he or anyone else know what the cost of the off-peak rail fare pilot is or is likely to be? That will be a factor i...
Mark Ruskell Green
John Mason makes a good point. There was an allocation in this year’s budget, but it is, of course, a changing picture. It depends on how many people get bac...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 12:55
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate, and I congratulate Mark Ruskell on securing it. I will keep my contribution brief. The removal of the peak...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I congratulate Mark Ruskell on securing the debate. I was very happy to sign his motion, because I agree with every word of it. The removal of peak fares on...
Graham Simpson Con
I see that Mr Ruskell wants to make an intervention, and I am happy to take it.
Mark Ruskell Green
I am enjoying hearing Graham Simpson’s not just acceptance but enthusiasm for green policies, but I am interested in what his views are on demand management....
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Begin winding up, please.
Graham Simpson Con
I will close by answering that point. My view is that I am more of a carrots man than a sticks man. The kind of proposal that Mark Ruskell has come up wit...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate and to Mark Ruskell for lodging the motion. As an MSP and Scottish Labour’s transport spokesperson, ...
Mark Ruskell Green
I thank Alex Rowley for his mention of the unions. I met the four unions again on Monday. They told me that, from the perspective of workers, the scheme has ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I will give you the time back, Mr Rowley.
Alex Rowley Lab
As well as speaking to rail unions, from speaking to rail workers when using the trains, and from speaking to passengers, it is clear that the policy is posi...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
As other members have done, I thank Mark Ruskell for giving us the opportunity to debate the policy today. I am proud that the Scottish Greens were able to s...
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I remind members of my voluntary register of trade union interests, and I thank Mark Ruskell for bringing this important debate to the chamber. Let me start...
Ross Greer Green
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Richard Leonard quite rightly referred to his entry in the register of members’ interests, which made me realise that...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Mr Greer. That is now on the record. I invite Fiona Hyslop to respond to the debate. 13:20
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
I thank Mark Ruskell for lodging the motion and all members for their contributions. I, too, recognise the role of trade unions in calling for this policy, a...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Does the cabinet secretary agree that, however much information the assessment, or a final report, can currently give us, it will be an assessment only of th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Cabinet secretary, I can give you the time back.
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Patrick Harvie makes a reasonable point. As he knows, it was after the Bute house agreement ended that I took the decision, along with colleagues, to extend ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
That concludes the debate. 13:28 Meeting suspended. 14:00 On resuming—