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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 June 2024

04 Jun 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Chapman, Maggie Green North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I thank everyone who has worked on the bill, in particular the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. I also thank the Child Poverty Action Group, the Poverty Alliance and the Law Society of Scotland for their briefings for the debate and for the ministerial statement earlier today.

The bill deals with a range of important issues and lays the ground for care experience assistance, including a care leaver payment, which I and other Scottish Greens very much welcome and hope will not be long delayed. We are supportive of the bill, although we have some remaining questions—in particular, on the provision of information for audit. I will return to that issue later. For now, I want to focus on what is, for us, one of the most significant and potentially transformative aspects of the bill: the provisions that relate to the Scottish child payment.

We are proud of the role that the Scottish Greens have played in the development of the Scottish child payment to what it is today, on both the level of the payment and the number of families who are able to receive it. We know that it is already making an immense difference to the lives of those families, as was recently detailed by academics and policy experts in their evidence to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. If anyone still doubts the efficacy of the payment, I urge them to read the Official Reports of those meetings. As Professor Ruth Patrick pointed out, the system of cash payments not only reduces the stigma that is associated with other types of assistance; crucially, it recognises and values parents’ own expertise.

Sadly, in practice, the Scottish child payment is not operating as it was originally intended to operate—as an extra payment that allows parents to give their children something more than the bare essentials for survival. Instead, very often—too often—it has to meet those bare essentials, to mitigate the effects of other events and policies.

One such event was the pandemic and what Jack Evans of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation described as the erosion of financial security that that produced. However, far more devastating was the epidemic that came afterwards—the crisis of greed that translated into unaffordable prices for the basic costs of living.

That oppression still continues, because as Stephen Sinclair of the Poverty and Inequality Commission explained to the committee, although inflation as a whole is lower than it was, the rate for essentials such as food and fuel, which account for a higher proportion of spending for low-income families, is higher than the headline figure.

The third factor—and the most destructive of all—is the UK Government’s social security system. As Ruth Boyle of the Poverty Alliance explained, that system

“is pulling people into poverty”,

with

“90 per cent of people who are in receipt of universal credit ... going without essentials”.—[Official Report, Social Justice and Social Security Committee, 30 May 2024; c 10.]

Ruth Patrick spoke of the way in which the two-child cap represents

“a divorcing of the relationship between need and entitlement.”—[Official Report, Social Justice and Social Security Committee, 23 May 2024; c 13.]

That relationship is fundamental to the working of a decent and just society.

Professor Danny Dorling described the UK as

“appalling in comparison with every other country in Europe”.—[Official Report, Social Justice and Social Security Committee, 23 May 2024; c 8.]

Last year’s UNICEF Innocenti report found that the UK had the largest increase in poverty out of the 39 countries that it surveyed, and that the rate of child mortality—the grief of generations—is now once more rising in the UK.

We welcome the space that will be created by the bill to place the Scottish child payment on a new footing, which will potentially make it not only a top-up that is dependent on other entitlements, but a stand-alone payment. It could be made available to those who cannot receive it at present, including families in the asylum system and young people over 16. As the Poverty Alliance highlighted, it could also be a vital step towards the implementation of a minimum income guarantee and all that that means for dignity, financial security and wellbeing for everyone in Scotland. We welcome the bill as a step along that journey.

15:26  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-13464, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on the Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill at stag...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
Although the chamber has cleared somewhat after my statement, I thank all the members who are staying and will contribute to the debate. This is an important...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
I call Collette Stevenson to speak on behalf of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. 15:03
Collette Stevenson (East Kilbride) (SNP) SNP
On behalf of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, I am pleased to contribute to the debate on the Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. I...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank the clerks and everyone who gave evidence to the committee at stage 1, which has helped us to form our report. I confirm that members on the Conserva...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will Jeremy Balfour give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
For Mr Mason, absolutely.
John Mason SNP
I thank Jeremy Balfour for his generosity. Does he accept that we now spend about £1 billion more on social security than would be the case from direct conse...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Under the system, we are giving a couple more benefits, but the process behind it is identical to that of Westminster. The Government likes to hide behind t...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
The member spoke about all the benefits that are delivered in Scotland being inflation proofed every single year. How would Mr Balfour fund that if our budge...
Jeremy Balfour Con
As the member says almost every week in the committee, it is all about political choices. I think that this is a political choice that we, as a Parliament, s...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jeremy Balfour Con
I am afraid that I am running out of time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is a bit of time in hand this afternoon. Should the member wish to take the intervention, he can, but it is up to him.
Jeremy Balfour Con
You are too kind, Deputy Presiding Officer.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I am grateful to the member for taking the intervention. I wonder whether he would support the DWP doing exactly the same. In that way, we could have parity ...
Jeremy Balfour Con
I think that we have seen that the DWP has done that. As I mentioned, the bill presents us with a welcome opportunity to make a real difference to the lives...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour and to confirm that we will support the general principles of the bill at decision time. It is ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I thank everyone who has worked on the bill, in particular the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. I also thank the Child Poverty Action Group, the...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to contribute to the stage 1 debate on the Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. As Deputy Convener of the Social Justice and Social Secu...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I am pleased to take part in the debate. I pay tribute to and thank the organisations that provided helpful briefings ahead of this debate, as well as the co...
Marie McNair (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I speak in the debate as a member of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. I thank the committee clerks for their assistance with the production ...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the committee, the clerks and witnesses for the stage 1 report, and I thank members for their contributions in the debate. I did not sit on the commi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
As other members have suggested, much of the bill is uncontentious and makes a lot of sense to all of us. For example, part 7 deals with compensation payment...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to closing speeches. 15:49
Maggie Chapman Green
I have been encouraged this afternoon by the range of important issues that have been discussed. I am particularly reassured to hear that our concerns about ...
Bob Doris SNP
I am delighted that the member is following the work of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee so closely. Would the member accept that Danny Dorli...
Maggie Chapman Green
Yes, I accept that point. We need to recognise and acknowledge that, and we then need to think about how we go beyond that and address issues, such as the fa...
Paul O’Kane Lab
I want to take time to reflect on the debate that we have had this afternoon, which has helpfully shown the consensus on the bill, as well as pointed to some...
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am happy to close the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. I add my thanks to those of pretty much every previous member in the debate to everyo...