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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 June 2024

04 Jun 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour and to confirm that we will support the general principles of the bill at decision time.

It is important that we acknowledge at the outset the principles of the bill, which are to improve people’s experiences of Social Security Scotland, to ensure value for money in the system and to ensure that the system evolves and does not become stagnant. We welcome many of the actions in the bill, including those that will ensure that the Scottish child payment is on a statutory footing and those that develop the framework for new benefits such as care experience assistance. We will support changes to our social security system in Scotland that continue to support people to live in dignity and free from poverty, because that aspiration is shared across the Parliament.

It is no secret that I and my colleagues have often been persistent in our critique and in holding the Government to account for many of the challenges that have been experienced in the roll-out of social security in Scotland. It is five years since Social Security Scotland was created and there have been a number of issues, including overspends on information technology infrastructure, the unacceptably long processing times for claims for many benefit payments and the long waiting times for clients who have called Social Security Scotland. As we have recognised in the chamber, long waiting times have meant, tragically, that more than 100 people have died while waiting for their adult disability payment claims to be processed. They were denied the payments that they were entitled to.

It is clear to me that there are many lessons to be learned and many improvements that we can make. We will continue to scrutinise every detail and action of the Government and the relevant bodies in the devolved social security system as they continue to evolve and develop.

In the vein of being constructive in my criticism, and in the spirit of the partnership working that the cabinet secretary said in her opening speech that she aspires to, I also want to highlight the successes of Social Security Scotland. The Scottish child payment has been a welcome evolution in the landscape, and Labour members have been proud to support it from its inception and through its development. Recently, the Social Justice and Social Security Committee has been taking evidence on its impact, and I am pleased to see the qualitative reports on the impact that it is having on some families, while recognising that there are calls for caution on the quantitative analysis, with the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and others pointing out that we still need more data. I hope that the Scottish Government has heard those calls for better data so that we can continue to scrutinise and make improvements in the system.

I also hope that, in her concluding remarks, the cabinet secretary will be able to say something about the improvements that we can make to the Scottish child payment. As I have said, we welcome its being put on a statutory footing, but it would be good to understand what further work the Government is doing as we move to put it on a statutory footing. That also goes for any potential new benefits, such as care experience assistance. We want to get a sense of where, potentially, the Government will consult in the future and what plans it has to develop that benefit.

On the other provisions in the bill—which is as imperfect as all bills are at stage 1—I know that the cabinet secretary will seek to work across parties to make improvements throughout stages 2 and 3. Indeed, the committee’s stage 1 report highlighted some of the concerns that we heard in evidence and some of the challenges that were put to the Government. We have already heard the cabinet secretary speak about section 6 of the bill and many of the challenges that were raised on how the audit process might affect more vulnerable individuals. It is welcome that the Government has taken cognisance of the evidence that was heard. As the bill progresses, we will continue to work to ensure that we improve those provisions.

We also heard about new regulations that are still not within the scope of scrutiny of the Scottish Commission on Social Security. That is of concern. We all know that SCOSS provides a vital body of expert scrutiny on the development and implementation of new payments and regulations, so it is important that we continue to empower it to scrutinise and to ensure that the right decisions are made for those who access social security payments.

Other changes to the bill will be needed. Many of our third sector and anti-poverty organisations have outlined those in the briefing material that they provided in advance of the debate. I know that the cabinet secretary and her officials also have thoughts on amendments that are required. It would be helpful to know the direction of travel and the areas of priority for the Government as soon as possible, so that we can work together.

Scottish Labour will engage with all ideas for the bill that can further enhance social security in Scotland, to ensure that it will live up to the promise of dignity, fairness and respect. I hope that the bill is a positive development that will move us in the right direction and ensure that our systems continue to bed in. Assuming that its general principles are agreed to at stage 1 this evening, I look forward to its development as it progresses.

15:22  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-13464, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on the Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill at stag...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
Although the chamber has cleared somewhat after my statement, I thank all the members who are staying and will contribute to the debate. This is an important...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
I call Collette Stevenson to speak on behalf of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. 15:03
Collette Stevenson (East Kilbride) (SNP) SNP
On behalf of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, I am pleased to contribute to the debate on the Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. I...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank the clerks and everyone who gave evidence to the committee at stage 1, which has helped us to form our report. I confirm that members on the Conserva...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will Jeremy Balfour give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
For Mr Mason, absolutely.
John Mason SNP
I thank Jeremy Balfour for his generosity. Does he accept that we now spend about £1 billion more on social security than would be the case from direct conse...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Under the system, we are giving a couple more benefits, but the process behind it is identical to that of Westminster. The Government likes to hide behind t...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
The member spoke about all the benefits that are delivered in Scotland being inflation proofed every single year. How would Mr Balfour fund that if our budge...
Jeremy Balfour Con
As the member says almost every week in the committee, it is all about political choices. I think that this is a political choice that we, as a Parliament, s...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jeremy Balfour Con
I am afraid that I am running out of time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is a bit of time in hand this afternoon. Should the member wish to take the intervention, he can, but it is up to him.
Jeremy Balfour Con
You are too kind, Deputy Presiding Officer.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I am grateful to the member for taking the intervention. I wonder whether he would support the DWP doing exactly the same. In that way, we could have parity ...
Jeremy Balfour Con
I think that we have seen that the DWP has done that. As I mentioned, the bill presents us with a welcome opportunity to make a real difference to the lives...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour and to confirm that we will support the general principles of the bill at decision time. It is ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I thank everyone who has worked on the bill, in particular the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. I also thank the Child Poverty Action Group, the...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to contribute to the stage 1 debate on the Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. As Deputy Convener of the Social Justice and Social Secu...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I am pleased to take part in the debate. I pay tribute to and thank the organisations that provided helpful briefings ahead of this debate, as well as the co...
Marie McNair (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I speak in the debate as a member of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. I thank the committee clerks for their assistance with the production ...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the committee, the clerks and witnesses for the stage 1 report, and I thank members for their contributions in the debate. I did not sit on the commi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
As other members have suggested, much of the bill is uncontentious and makes a lot of sense to all of us. For example, part 7 deals with compensation payment...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to closing speeches. 15:49
Maggie Chapman Green
I have been encouraged this afternoon by the range of important issues that have been discussed. I am particularly reassured to hear that our concerns about ...
Bob Doris SNP
I am delighted that the member is following the work of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee so closely. Would the member accept that Danny Dorli...
Maggie Chapman Green
Yes, I accept that point. We need to recognise and acknowledge that, and we then need to think about how we go beyond that and address issues, such as the fa...
Paul O’Kane Lab
I want to take time to reflect on the debate that we have had this afternoon, which has helpfully shown the consensus on the bill, as well as pointed to some...
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am happy to close the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. I add my thanks to those of pretty much every previous member in the debate to everyo...